It is tempting to dismiss Nikki & Nora as a lesbian Cagney and Lacey. After all, both shows feature two women in leading roles playing detectives in large urban centers. Both shows have contrasting main characters – one outspoken, the other more demure – and, though not quite exactly the same hue, one of the crime-fighting duo is a brunette and the other is a blond.
But that’s about where the comparisons end. Cagney and Lacey, which debuted on CBS in 1981, had a remarkable seven-year run. It racked up some 36 Emmy nominations (remember, this is pre-cable), 14 wins and a combined six-year stretch of wins for leads Tyne Daly (Mary Beth Lacey) and Sharon Gless (Christine Cagney) in the category of ‘Best Lead Actress in a Drama,’ a feat that has not been duplicated before or since.
But Cagney and Lacey was, despite all the networks efforts to sap Daly’s aggressivity (“too dykish” complained studio execs) at the end of the day, a police procedural drama with two straight women in the lead roles. And despite critical raves and a fan base that related to their humanity, the show was dropped in 1988. Times and tastes change.
Fast forward to 2004. Enter Nancylee Myatt and Nikki & Nora. Myatt was an established and respected writer, from her early days on Night Court, where she wrote the series finale, to an NAACP award for her work on Living Single, to co-executive producer, writer and director on the network teen drama South of Nowhere, where she oversaw and nurtured the lesbian love story between characters Spencer and Ashley (known in fandom as “Spashley”). But Myatt was determined to upend the television landscape with characters of depth and scope who just happened to be lesbian. It was in, effect, a response to what many in the LGBT community saw as an all too paltry representation on television of characters like them.
She created a pilot episode of Nikki & Nora for the now defunct UPN network (Star Trek: Voyager anyone?) that, despite its high production values, tight script and impeccable acting, failed to generate a response. But something remarkable and remarkably organic happened. The show, in spite of itself, established a fan base that kept the dream of seeing Nikki & Nora return alive for almost 10 years through fan fiction, webzines, chat forums and all the new tools of the digital age.
Fast forward to 2014. Nikki & Nora was at last reborn as a web series earlier this year. It was made possible by fans that would not let go of this crime fighting lesbian couple in America’s oldest party town and one record breaking crowd-funding campaign launched by creator Nancylee Myatt, the producers and the cast. The fundraising campaign for Nikki & Nora is the largest funded campaign for a series with lesbian lead characters, raising $65,000 and well surpassing their goal by 30 percent.
San Diego LGTB Weekly spoke at length with Liz Vassey (Nikki Beaumont) and Christina Cox (Nora Delaney) about the show, the fans and what it was like to be part of something that, although they had no way of knowing at the time, would, almost 10 years later, be a remarkable testament to the community’s loyalty and belief in what Nikki & Nora were and have come to represent.
San Diego LGBT Weekly: Where were each of you professionally right before the call came in telling you you’d each been cast in the title roles?
Liz Vassey: If memory serves, Christina and I both found out we got the roles in the CBS parking lot on Beverly Boulevard – right after we left the network test. It was pilot season, which means pretty much every actor in town (at least every actor who was not already on a series) was in the exact same professional place: carting their asses around town and screaming, “Pick me!” to anyone who was hiring and/or listening. In my case, luckily, this show did pick me. Here’s the thing about Nikki & Nora though. I started working in television when I was 15 years old, and by 2004, had been doing it long enough to know what I liked and what (to me) was worth potentially moving to another city to do. I loved this script in a very immediate and visceral way. Not to get too precious about it, but it felt special and, I believed, important. It’s such a crap shoot what gets on the air, and it’s even “crap shootier” what stays there – all you can do is really go after the ones that you love.
Christina Cox: I had just come back from Vancouver, where I had been shooting The Chronicles of Riddick for six months or so and a few other things my badass Canadian agent Jamie Levitt had managed to shoehorn in where the Riddick schedule permitted. It was a great summer that led into a very busy pilot season (this is before the economy and the entertainment industry did its giant face plant). I’d been reading a lot of scripts and we were targeting a couple that I responded to. Nikki & Nora came into the season pretty early if I recall (all the drama pilots do) and I really allowed myself to want this one. It was a perfect mix of character and procedural with a lovely does of humor and most importantly humanity.
What was the official reason given that the UPN Network would not be picking up Nikki & Nora? Did it surprise you? Was the show shopped around to other networks, cable or otherwise?
LV: You hear all sorts of things when shows don’t go, and it’s exceedingly difficult to know what’s true. I will say that, given the conservative political climate of 2004 – particularly after Janet Jackson’s “NippleGate” at the Super Bowl on CBS (the same network that would have ostensibly financed our series) – I wasn’t shocked when a show with two lesbian leads didn’t go. I was saddened (for many reasons) but I certainly wasn’t surprised.
CC: Unless you know someone actually involved in the decision making process, you are never going to get an official reason. Truthfully, they don’t have to give you one so why would they commit themselves to one? Unless you install a spycam on Les Moonves favorite pen, you’re going to be wondering fruitlessly for a really long time. We know it was loved and watched and well received. There wasn’t a single audition for about a year after that where someone didn’t mention it. Especially the bathtub. Always the bathtub. Which I can’t really blame them for; it was a very nice bathtub. With an awfully purdy lady in it.
I remember 2004 well and this was the height of Will and Grace’s popularity. Showtime had Queer as Folk (far racier) so I’m wondering if you think the show was simply too ahead of its time?
LV: I was searching for an eloquent answer but I think the most succinct way to put it is: yes. The initial episode was quite good: high production values, well-acted, well-written.
CC: I have to say, I’ve done a few pilots and watched even more and no matter the auspices, sometimes it just doesn’t work. I don’t know what happens but sometimes you’ll pop that DVD in and the thing is just unwatchable. (None of mine, of course.) You wonder what makes the magic happen and the answer is this intangible, elusive thing: alchemy. Nikki & Nora was great because Nancylee created a world we wanted to lie down and wrap ourselves up in and because the people and the place and the story came together with a palpable chemistry. And no budget is going to fix that.
Do you think that if they had removed the fact that you two were both romantically involved, it would have helped get the show produced or would that simply have relegated Nikki & Nora to just another police procedural drama?
LV: I have no idea, but I do know this: I definitely wouldn’t have been as interested in doing it. I loved the relationship Nancylee Myatt created for Nikki & Nora, and truly believe that’s what made it so special. I also think it’s the main reason people are still talking about it 10 years later: until that point it was (unfortunately) rare to see two lesbians in the lead roles. I think basically people are searching for representations of themselves on TV, they’re looking for ways to connect – and Nikki & Nora gave a largely ignored part of our population (especially then) a chance to do just that.
CC: Sure, Nancylee could have “buried the lede”; let people fall in love with the characters and then reveal the relationship but what would be the real reason? Pandering to intolerance. Blech. Go big or go home.
One thing that struck me after watching the 40-or-so minute pilot was the absence of any homophobic characters on the show. Was that done on purpose? Had you discussed adding a character that was less than accepting of your relationship?
LV: I think the pilot touched on the fact that both our families had difficulties initially – and we did see my TV father (Chris Sarandon aka Prince Humperdinck!) trying to accept it and succeeding to some degree. But I think the main reason there were no homophobic characters in the pilot is that no one at Nikki & Nora’s workplace knew they were a couple yet. I would imagine we would have seen touches of homophobia in the series. Once both Nikki and Nora came out about their relationship, all their co-workers would naturally have very specific reactions to it. My guess is Nancylee would absolutely have touched on people condemning it from the start and, hopefully, coming around over the course of the show.
CC: That’s a great observation and one I hadn’t really considered until now. I think the reason it didn’t occur to me is that the web series, like the pilot wasn’t about “Look at these lesbians living big lesbian lives! Doing lesbian things!” (Not that there would be anything wrong with that. That just wasn’t our show) It was about two women, two human beings, with rich and varied histories, families and lives, who happened to also be in love with each other.
On the show, you’re former cops, private eyes and lovers. What or who did each of you draw upon to help you create your characters in a relatable way?
LV: For the pilot, Nancylee gave us some incredible books to read about cops in New Orleans and we trained with a local officer. Christina and I hung out and talked about our characters a lot. And by that I mean we hit many bars in New Orleans, drank a lot of vodka, and laughed our asses off. To try and experience what it’s like being a lesbian couple out and about in New Orleans, Nancylee suggested we pretend we were a couple and regale fellow bar-goers with stories of our “lives” to see their reactions. Naturally, this evolved into Christina and I telling people all about how we fake-met, details about our fake clerical jobs and fake heartwarming stories about our fake-soon-to-be adopted child. I’m happy to report not a single person in or around the French Quarter had any problem with Christina and I together. And here’s a trade secret: it’s not hard to act like you’re a couple when there’s mad mutual respect going on.
For the web series, personally, I read about private eyes to get some background – but my main goal was understanding why Nikki & Nora felt that would be a good shift in their lives. I think after all they’d been through the past ten years, it was important for them to feel a little more control over their own futures and basically be their own bosses. It seemed like a pretty natural evolution for their characters, so I was pleased Nancylee wanted to go in that direction.
CC: I’ve been really fortunate to have worked from everyone from FBI hostage rescues, DEA agents, the Miami Narcotics Division, Miami SWAT, ex-military to … you get the idea. For the web series I got to totally pick the brain of one of L.A.’s top PI’s, Jake Schmidt. He is a man with an unbelievably “straight out of a spy novel” past and a wild present as probably the top investigator in L.A. He set me straight about how it’s all done. And I learned some nifty ways to … ahem, “obtain information”. And the truth about wire taps, spyware and putting a GPS on yer cheatin’ spouse’s car.
What do each of you think are the reasons for the spectacular fan base that has kept this show alive for almost ten years? Do you think it has anything to do with the absence of any meaningful lesbian characters on television?
LV: People want to see themselves represented on TV. The fact that people had to (pre-Nikki & Nora) watch a ten-year-old pilot to do so is a sad commentary on our society. But things are thankfully changing, I feel. Shows like The Fosters have a lesbian couple front and center and, as I hope the rest of the U.S. can see, it has a huge following and the world did not, in fact, blow up. I’d also like to take a moment to thank all the fans for helping to keep this show alive. You guys are stone cold badasses and I’m grateful for every one of you.
CC: I think the biggest contributing factor is that someone leaked it to YouTube and it caught fire. A couple of years before and YouTube wouldn’t have been an option. It would have gone into the vault like all the other series that didn’t get picked up. Poof! Gone. YouTube started with a ripple and became this big beautiful wave we’ve been riding. It clearly resonated with a lot of people who were aching to see a more balanced representation of themselves in the media. Where the leads of a network show could not only be gay but they could be gay on camera. Not talk about being gay or lesbian and be single for the entire show, or only date off screen and just talk about it but be in a living, breathing evolving relationship. Which apparently to some powers that be was just plain crazy talk.
What have each of you been doing – professionally and personally – since the show’s initial pilot in 2004 and today?
LV: I got hitched right after the pilot – which beats the hell out of anything professional in my life. I also did a very happy five year stint on CSI, a season of Tru Calling, recurring roles on Two and a Half Men and Necessary Roughness, three pilots that didn’t go, and some movies. The most exciting thing for me in the last few years has been a transition to writing. My last year on CSI, they let me co-write an episode and I fell in love with the process. I’d written before, but this was different: I was lucky enough to sit in the writer’s room and get a hell of a course in structuring a TV show. One of the producers became my mentor – I still call him “Yoda” and call him for advice more frequently than I’d like to admit. And since CSI, I have sold four pilots and got to write on a writing staff with Nancylee. I love it. I started acting in theater when I was 9 years old and this has been a terrific change.
CC: It still feels like yesterday that we shot the pilot. Crazy. Things have been great, living, growing personally and professionally. I’ve had the opportunity to work with more beautiful talented people like the cast and crew of Defying Gravity (another show that I would have done forever given the chance) among other things. Ten years. Bah! Don’t talk about decades!
Any hints you’d like to share about the direction of the show? Something your fans would appreciate?
LV: Nikki & Nora in space. It’s Gravity meets Rizzoli and Isles. Believe it.
CC: We are now in talks with Richard Branson to film Nikki & Nora entirely in zero gravity. Truth.
