Back in 1999, the Rt. Rev. Barbara C. Harris stated the following in a sermon commemorating the 25th anniversary of the ordination of women in the Episcopal Church: “Let there be peace among us, and let us not be instruments of our own oppression.”
Well, the trans community has a habit of eating its own to the point of becoming instruments of our own oppression. We engage in horizontal violence of the spirit without second thought.
To quote Martin Luther King Jr.: “Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him.”
We trans people apparently haven’t as yet fully embraced nonviolence.
I’m currently on the receiving end of biting, personal commentary that feels a lot like hate. And, it’s because I had a bilateral orchiectomy instead of a vaginoplasty. It seems to be a doctrine of faith among a number of transsexual women that identify themselves by such names as “women-born-transsexual,” “women of transsexual history” and “true transsexuals,” that unless a transsexual has a vaginoplasty then that transsexual isn’t a woman.
One comment from a woman who identifies herself as a woman of transsexual history stated “… we are faced with penis packing perpetual transvestites like Autumn ‘I’m too insane to remember to dilate besides I like my low maintenance dick’ Sandeen.” The “too insane” portion of the quote is reference to how I have cyclothymia – a bipolar disorder. The writer of that comment, back in 2008, also called me a “house tranny.”
Another from a woman who identifies herself as a woman of transsexual history stated, “No, Autumn Sandeen, you are not a woman. You are still just a rather sick penis packing no balls whatever in a dress but thankfully not wearing those silly berets any longer. Transsexual women or women-born-transsexual do not willingly keep their penis and claim their insanity makes taking care of a penis easier than taking care of a new vagina.” Within the same essay the author also misgendered me as “hir,” and called me a “eunuch.”
And yet another stated, “Note to Autumn: In case you didn’t know men have penises. Women have vaginas. You are neither.” She elsewhere called me “That Penis Packing Princess of the Tee-Gees.”
And still yet another stated, “Autumn Sandeen has announced that he is having ‘genital reconstruction surgery.’ Except, well, he isn’t. Not even close. He is lying, at the very least to himself, and really to anyone foolish enough to believe his bizarre fantasy. You see, what Mr. Sandeen is having is, not ‘genital reconstruction surgery’ but instead, is simply an orchiectomy. He is not becoming a complete female. He is becoming a eunuch, a castrated male.”
It seems in just about every identity community, there are litmus tests. How many times have we heard that someone isn’t black enough, or is too black? How many times have we heard “gold star” lesbians comment negatively about those who aren’t? How many times have we heard gay men comment negatively about bisexual men as just having not admitted that they’re really just gay? Who is black enough? Who is lesbian enough? Who is gay enough – and, of course, who is transsexual enough?
Apparently, to those who identify as women-born-transsexual, women of transsexual history or as true transsexuals, I’m not transsexual enough. Since I socio-politically identify as transgender, and have had an orchiectomy, I’m not deemed to be a “true transsexual.”
And, it’s personal, but not personal – I’m far from the only one so deemed as not transsexual enough due to surgical status; I’m far from the only one who’s experienced horizontal violence because of surgical status.
People have to work with others, in and out of their self-defined communities, if people are to accomplish legislative goals. For many transsexual people – in and out of the transgender community – the goals include being able to change identity documents (such as driver’s licenses and birth certificates) to match one’s gender identity. But instead of looking for commonalities and working with others, a number of my peers, ones who at some point in their lives identified with the word transsexual, seem only interested in deriding people who they decide aren’t transsexual enough, or not woman enough, for their definitions of what is acceptably “normal.”
Horizontal violence serves no one here, but still horizontal violence continues unabated. And in the process, for those of us who identify as trans, transgender, transsexual or who have ever identified with any or all of those terms, we don’t find peace, and we become the instruments of our own oppression.
Just because you choose to not meet the minimum standard for what every doctor and biologist on the planet says makes a female doesn’t make you a female Autumn. Just because people call you out on that doesn’t make it hate or violence. There is something called the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States that says I can say anything about you as long as it is not libel or slander. Saying what is true by what the state of California defines as criteria for changing a birth certificate is not horizontal violence, it is stating a legal fact. Saying that “46, XY” persons who have a penis are men is not hate, it’s biological fact. A “46, XY” person who undergoes the appropriate reconstructive surgery and lives in the state of California and has a letter from the surgeon or her can petition for a change of legal sex. That is a legal fact.
These are the facts and this is the real world not Tee-Gee blogland.
You decided to become a public individual, for whatever reasons, you knew when you did there would be people who would take issue with your views and ideas, you knew people would pick apart your personal life if you aired all your laundry, dirty or otherwise. What I fail to grasp is why do you complain so much about how you are treated, you do it here, you do it on Pam’s House Blend, you don’t see Rush Limbaugh or most of the other public figures who comment on social issues whining about how badly they are treated by their detractors. You really are putting forward a really bad face for Tee-Gees (Transgender community) by your actions you are giving the impression that all transgenders are whiny and incapable of taking what they dish out.
In contrast, the real true transsexuals or women of operative history set their sights on a goal keep their head down and work toward that goal, when they have corrected their birth defect they get on with life. Only a small minority are exhibitionists the vast majority live their lives and don’t look back.
Your actions like openly stating you are going to file fraudulent documents in Superior Court is going to insight people to exercise their first amendment right and call you out on that. Complaining is your right under the first amendment as your right to be free to do stupid things.
Can’t take the heat, please leave the kitchen.
Being an activist is a job for grown-ups.
Wow. Some people need to take a serious chill pill.
Personally, I plan on having GCS. I don’t feel like any less of a woman because I haven’t had it yet, and I think holding animosity toward people who don’t have it is moronic. Why can’t some people accept that some women have penises and move on with their lives, instead of attacking and belittling people who happen to have something different between their legs?
I mean seriously.
So… having one’s testicles removed does not make a man into a woman, but having his penis turned inside out does? What about the uterus, ovaries, cervix, and all of that other stuff that a real woman has, or was at least born with? It seems to me that if Autumn isn’t a woman, then neither is this “Not Your Friend” person.
So let me get this right Joann.
A woman who has a hysterectomy is no longer a woman in spite of having a vagina, breasts and all that other stuff. That will no doubt come as news to many women who have had their reproductive organs removed due to cancer or STD. By your logic testis make the man. That would come as a shock to men who have lost them from cancer or accident. And according to your logic it is impossible for a transsexual born female to ever transition to life as a male. Some men and some women are not born with complete reproductive organs, by your logic they must be freaks My best friend would find that highly offensive since she was born with one ovary and one testicle.
Your attempt at turning my own words upon me has failed, try harder next time and remember that men have a penis and women have a vagina, don’t believe me stop someone on the street and ask them.
The fact of the matter is that you are really no more a woman than Autumn. As far as a vagina is concerned, you don’t have one either. You have a penis that was sliced open and shoved up inside of you to SIMULATE a vagina. Like Autumn, you still have a penis, regardless of your delusions to the contrary.
Joanne
The science disagrees with your oversimplified statements Much has been learned in the last 40 years about true transsexualism and why we are born with this body, mind conflict. Many TS are intersex, many have genetic birth defects. Most of the science can be found at Transsexual Symposium International (ts-si dot com)
A friend from out of state had this to say on the subject directly addressed to you.
Catkisser said…
“Joann, there are three groups who make the argument you just did. About five to ten of the most over the top of the radical lesbian feminists, about five of the most rabid of the religious right and the group that does it a hundred times or more than those first two combined, full time transvestites living in an alternate universe where people with penises are women and post corrected female bodied women of transsexual history are not.”
I know the Tee-Gees are not interested in science as a matter of fact they denounce it because it invalidates their claim to transsexuality.
We won our rights over 30 years ago.
We won the right to change our birth records based upon physical features.
We won all the rights all men and women are born with in this country including the right to marry. The Tee-Gees and some in the LGB are trying to tear down those rights which were granted to us with the help of doctors, members of the caring profession and law makers who quietly worked to support our cause long before many of you ever knew what transsexualism ever was.
We are females and males in the eyes of our loved ones, our friends, our neighbors, our coworkers and our god.
Ah, another member of the “They WIll Take My Penis When They Pry My Cold Dead Fingers From It” Club weighs in. Of course, he has to justify his claim to “womanhood” by making a rather ignorant, and laughable attack. Sorry, but no, we don’t have “penises” like Sandeen. No doctor, except one with a major ax to grind, would make such an assertion. This is the transgender silliness at its most extreme. Simple bottom line, if I am in a situation where I am nude, no one would imagine I was anything other than a normal female. If Sandeen is in the same situation, well there would be no question that he is male. And again, we have that classic male tendency to quantify womanhood. You either are a woman, or you are not. I am, you are not. Sandeen is not. It really is that simple.
Nothing horizontal about it, Autumn. Cut it anyway you please. Ban us from PHB and the debate. Nothing will change. A castrated male is not a female…and Joann, meet Autumn, you two should really get along.
@Joann: SRS creates a fully functioning vagina, there is nothing that is being simulated. If you go to one of the better surgeons, then even gynecologists can hardly tell the difference.
@Autumn: I read your original article where you claimed you couldn’t undergo SRS because you were afraid that your bipolar disorder would make it difficult for you to follow a dilation schedule. But then please answer my question, why didn’t you go for a cosmetic SRS where no depth is created? There are several surgeons that offer this option, and it doesn’t require dilation.
That is a very good question. And the answer is very obvious, and very simple. Sandeen wants to be a “woman with a penis.” Actually having SRS would make him “normal,” and that is not what he wants to be. Sandeen is all about the “transgression,” not being a woman.
In his case, “F” is for “fraud.”
Joann, there are three groups who make the argument you just did. About five to ten of the most over the top of the radical lesbian feminists, about five of the most rabid of the religious right and the group that does it a hundred times or more than those first two combined, full time transvestites living in an alternate universe where people with penises are women and post corrected female bodies women of transsexual history are not.
Elitism, is just another form of hate. For shame.
What elitism Amber?
Ah, the classic claim that transsexuals think they are at the top of the “transgender hierarchy.” No, transsexuals are not at the top of such an imaginary hierarchy. They are not better than transvestites, cross dressers, etc. They are not better than “transgender people.” They have nothing in common with transgender people and any attempts to compare them is like comparing apples and quantum mechanics. They are totally different.
I wanted to add Amber I don’t belong to the Tee-Gee community therefore I am not a part of some imaginary hierarchy I am simply a woman who had corrective surgery to repair a birth defect and has moved on. I can’t be an elitist in a group I don’t belong to or identify with.
Not Your Friend – OK, let’s talk about science.
The science of how in trans people, some of the brain is cross-sexed anatomically, but some is not. How there are some structures that match neither a male nor female stereotype.
Let’s talk about the parts of the brain that pertain to “body map”, which is why some women with masculinised genitalia are extremely uncomfortable with that, and some are not. I’m talking Intersex women here, womyn-born-womyn, females-assigned-at-birth, not people whose status is being questioned like you, me, or Autumn.
The HBS “true transsexual” group, while supposedly and originally based on science, is now a religion. It ignores inconvenient evidence.
Evidence like this:
Sex Dimorphism of the Brain in Male-to-Female Transsexuals by Savic I, Arver S Cereb. Cortex (2011)
“.The present data do not support the notion that brains of MtF-TR are feminized. ”
They also go on to say that there are specific differences unique to MtF women, and that some parts of the brain – though not others – *are* feminised.
It’s not a binary. See:
Sexual differentiation of the human brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation D.Swaab & A.Garcia-Fulgaras Functional Neurology, Jan-Mar 2009:
“One person we studied had untreated male gender dysphoria (S7), took no hormones and kept his transsexual feelings under wraps. He appeared to have a large INAH3 volume – in the male range – but a female INAH3 number of neurons (68) and a female BSTc somatostatin neuron number (95). Hence, this individual’s hypothalamic characteristics were mid-way between male and female values”
It’s not a binary; just as some parts of the brain may more closely match a male or female stereotype, each part may be somewhere in-between too.
What little evidence we have suggests that brain sex is no more of a strict binary than chromosomal sex or genital anatomical sex. The whole concept of “men are men, women are women, nothing else exists” is bogus, contrary to the data, a superstitious belief, not a rational conclusion. Even though it’s mostly the case, when it comes to trans people, intersex people, and many who are cis-, it’s just not accurate.
Now all this could just be an interesting academic argument. But you’ve used your superstition as a weapon to attack other women, and shown either scientific ignorance, or (to be charitable) a malevolent negligence to look at the data, or are just plain lying.
Please look at this:
Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism. by Luders et al Neuroimage. 2009 Jul 15;46(4):904-7.
We analyzed MRI data of 24 male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals not yet treated with cross-sex hormones in order to determine whether gray matter volumes in MTF transsexuals more closely resemble people who share their biological sex (30 control men), or people who share their gender identity (30 control women). Results revealed that regional gray matter variation in MTF transsexuals is more similar to the pattern found in men than in women. However, MTF transsexuals show a significantly larger volume of regional gray matter in the right putamen compared to men. These findings provide new evidence that transsexualism is associated with distinct cerebral pattern, which supports the assumption that brain anatomy plays a role in gender identity.
While “girl brain in boy body” does capture the essence, the more you look at the detail, the more you see that it’s not true, but an over-simplification.
As you may know, this doesn’t thrill me. I *like* the idea of a binary gender. It comforts me. But I’m too good a scientist to ignore inconvenient facts that I wish were not true. So while I argue that trans people are the sex they say they are, based on anatomy, I don’t denigrate people of either sex who don’t fit the stereotype in every single way.
Actually, there is a study that blows this silliness away, and lays it all to rest. While some wish to find evidence for their bizarre behavior being inborn, the truth is that there is a study that shows that transsexualism is a real, and unique condition that is not part of the transgender silliness. And that is the study that shows that true transsexuals do not have a post-op sensation of a phantom penis (i.e. they don’t miss what their brain is not wired to expect) but that others, who probably should not have had surgery, often do.
You see, I don’t think Sandeen “should” have had a vaginoplasty. In fact, I have not doubt he made the right decision in not having one. He would not be happy without his penis. And even if he had a vaginoplasty, it would make no difference. He would still be a man, albeit one without a penis. Vaginoplasty is one side of a two sided coin called transsexualism. Some men, often referred to as “autogynephiles” are effectively transvestites who get carried away. They have long, successful careers as men, and then, later in life decide that “just” cross dressing is not enough. They decide they want more to keep the thrill going. Some go all the way, and then regret it. I can think of a few examples.
No, the issue with Sandeen is that he is trying to perpetuate a fraud, and that he should be called on it when he attempts to deceive the courts.
Zoe there is a lot of science on the subject, Here we are discussing what California accepts as criteria for changing someone’s sex as stated on their birth certificate and the fraud the columnist has claimed she will carry out.
Uh, Zoe, the study “Sex Dimorphism of the Brain in Male-to-Female Transsexuals” was not a study of classic or true transsexuals. It was specifically a study of what was very likely people like Mr. Sandeen. These were strictly gynephillic male to female transsexuals. In another words, what some would refer to as “autogynephiles.” Interesting that you don’t mention that. I doubt they went out and found “true transsexuals” who actually are lesbians. It is clearly a study intended to prove something, not real research.
I thought the biological definition of “female” was that form of the species that produces the largest gamete. Do any of you produce ova, or would you have been capable of producing ova prior to having procedures that left you sterile?
This argument is driving non-trans allies away from us. There are many rights we still don’t have. Trans people can’t serve in the military; in Texas apparently they don’t have the right to marry anyone.
If I had the resources, I would gladly have GRS. But at the moment I don’t. The argument that only people who have completed GRS qualify as the gender they are living as is classist, pure and simple.
The argument that is driving non trans allies away from the Tee-Gee community is laughable. What is driving any allies real or imagined away from the Tee-Gee community is the one that Sandeen is behind based on her belief that state laws don’t matter and people who are equipped with a penis should be able to call themselves female in spite of the state law.
Sorry but the law is only people who have completed GRS can petition the court for a change in their birth certificate. Save your money Jill. I know women who saved for years and ate beans and rice for the whole time in order to have enough money to have their birth defect corrected.
If you really are TS you will find a way, every one I know has even disabled women.
Autumn can have GRS if she wants, nobody says you have to go through the physical therapy to maintain a usable vagina. There are other reasons why Sandeen wishes to keep her male appendage, otherwise she would have dealt with it.
At the root of all of this is fraud plain and simple fraud the kind of fraud that could land Sandeen in prison, maybe there she would have her GRS.
What is driving non-trans allies away is that every time any sort of discussion over anything trans happens, the HBS/Classical Transsexual separatists show up and start an argument. They’re the transgender community’s version of the Westboro Baptist Church.
If they want to be separatists, then I wish them all the luck in the world. Except that they won’t go away! They cling to the transgender community like leeches, benefiting from each piece of pre-transgender legislation passed while railing against it!
These separatists really need to take a good hard look in the mirror. They probably wouldn’t like what they see though… and they would no doubt blame the transgender community for that too.
I’ll tell you what, when transgender extremists stop lying and claiming to be transsexuals when they clearly are not, when they stop claiming that transsexuals are part of the transgender community, when they stop presuming to lump us into the community by claiming we are committing “horizontal violence, when they stop trying to use us to pass legislation by deception (in the vast majority of cases, we don’t even want the legislation to begin with, and when they stop making comments such as the one where you link us to Westboro, then we will gladly ignore you.
Tg`s and those who are belivers of Tg dogma are some of the most delusional folks around. That also includes A.E. B
What I see here, in the article by Autumn and by a representation of the commentary which follows it is a testament to a clearer picture of just what people with a ‘history of whatever’, face:
A division from within, and a division from without.
It seems clear that no answer anyone provides the doubters from the world of ETs (Early Transitioners, such as Not Your Friend) will ever be able to alter their impermeable, vacuous minds. Logic, science or, even the innocent ignorance from people in their perception of a binary society which do not even accept THEM!
Unfortunately Autumn, you’ve painted a rather large target on yourself with the publicity you’ve sought for a cause that was – at on time – seen as worthy. The vitriol these ETs exude is highly toxic. Pay them no mind; none at all. They are not worth the effort to reference. Truly, they are an insignificant force that is of an aging minuscule population that is deluded enough to “think’ they have achieved “equality” in a binary system that – as I stated – doesn’t even accept them. It’s why they post anonymously. They know it! They’re angry because of it and wish to transfer their pitiful issues of unhappiness upon an even more vulnerable group of people (those who have not yet achieved their rightful status of receiving a cure for a defect of which they too were born).
Transegender, transsexual, gender queer people have enough hardships to face and fight daily. They need not be even more hindered by the likes of some old disgruntled ET.
So, keep focusing on achieving a more level playing field for all of us, Autumn. Resist the urge to engage these miserably vapid personalities and move forward to repair the splintered limb of the transsexual, transgender and gender queer which do have validity to their existence and an even larger need for effective voice.
I discussed this once w/ a genetic woman. Her comment was, “So the definition of a woman is a person with a cunt. Great! You can sure tell that a man came up with that definition.”
Anyone curious about who these separatists are should take a peek at www dot ariablues dot com.
oops! Make that “ariablues dot blogspot dot com”!
Joann, are you familiar with Godwin’s Law? Well, you just totally violated, and as such, you lose….boy, do you ever lose.
This argument is ridiculous……I have had this battle many times and here is the bottom line….
“Not your friend” was born a male…..”Not your friend” will die a male no matter what she has legislatively or physically changed during the course of life.
I know that is not something anyone wants to hear being said but the facts are the facts. Not your friend is nothing more than a man with a fake vagina. Not your friend cannot nor was ever able to give birth….why?….because not your friend was born male. Not your friend does not have a self lubricating vagina…never had and never will…..why?…..because not your friend was born male. Not your friend attempts to justify things by stating things that while may be true for women can never be true for Not your friend…why?…..because not your friend was born male and there is NOTHING not your friend can ever do about that one small fact.
Not your friend is an elitist…..someone who thinks that they are better than others because not your friend feels that because there was surgery womanhood is of course guaranteed. It’s not by any stretch of the imagination. Just by attitude you can feel the testosterone that still races through not your friends body.
I feel sorry for people like not your friend. People like not your friend could help so many girls through their transition but instead choose to take a path of ignorance and over compensating self worth when it is plain to see that with their attitude they really aren’t worth anything.
the other great thing I noticed is that “not your friend” loves to run their mouth but cannot even put their name up…you know the one she is supposed to be so proud of…the one on her driver’s license and birth certificate….shows me right there what class of person you are dealing with.
The “not your friends” of the world have been dealing with me for a little while now and will continue to do so. they all will be outed for who they really are…nothing more than boys running around in pseudo girls bodies….they are the real frauds…the true fakes….they are the true transvestites because while appearing like women they are nothing more than male inside….but then again what can you expect?…..that is how they were born.
Sorry Sarah wrong on all counts I’m female all the way and not a part of your transgender ghetto.
For your information Sarah I have help a dozen or son women through their transition and away from the Tee-Gees, I have made sure they had acceptable voices even if their looks were not up with a Barbie doll. You wouldn’t spot 1 of my girls in a crowd unlike the 50 year old Tee-Gees who dress like they are seventeen running all over San Diego who stick out like a smashed bumper on a new car.
You won’t see any of the women I have helped standing on the corner down at fifth and Elm where there appears to be a trannie bar talking like men and dressed like hookers.
No self respecting woman would be caught within a mile of that place.
No you certainly won’t see any of the women I have helped to transition, they are real women living real lives in the real world and 3 of them are married in real marriages with real men.
Sarah you have a good life and please see someone about those anger issues.
What I see here, in the article by Autumn and by a representation of the commentary which follows it is a testament to a clearer picture of just what people with a ‘history of whatever’, face:
A division from within, and a division from without.
It seems clear that no answer anyone provides the doubters from the world of ETs (Early Transitioners, such as Not Your Friend) will ever be able to alter their impermeable, vacuous minds. Logic, science and even the innocent ignorance from people in their perception as being included into a binary society, which do not even accept THEM, fail to impress their own ignorance!
Unfortunately Autumn, you’ve painted a rather large target on yourself with the publicity you’ve sought for a cause that was – at one time – seen as worthy. The vitriol these ETs exude is highly toxic. Pay them no mind; none at all. They are not worth the effort to reference. Truly, they are an insignificant force that is of an aging minuscule population that is deluded enough to “think’ they have achieved “equality” in a binary system that – as I stated – doesn’t even accept them. It’s why they post anonymously. They know it! They’re angry because of it and wish to transfer their pitiful issues of unhappiness upon an even more vulnerable group of people (those who have not yet achieved their rightful status of receiving a cure for a defect of which they too were born).
Transgender, transsexual, gender queer people have enough hardships to face and fight daily. They need not be even more hindered by the likes of some old disgruntled ET.
So, keep focusing on achieving a more level playing field for all of us, Autumn. Resist the urge to engage these miserably vapid personalities and move forward to repair the splintered limb of the transsexual, transgender and gender queer which do have validity to their existence and an even larger need for effective voice.
The incredible misogyny of Autumn Sandeen and Company is beyond the pale! It is not just women with a transsexual past who are threatened by her farcical and deluded instance that women have a penis… It is ALL women who are threatened by this as Sailor Sandeen and the TG legions feverishly work to reduce womanhood and female to a poorly drawn cartoon and pantomime that only requires a dress and the patriarchal chutzpah to claim this territory as their own! To hell with women… The transgender have come to town! Now get in the kitchen and get me a beer bitch!
@JOE…Now who is spreading HATE and “Horizontal Violence”
Wow! So much disinformation, so little time… First off, it is not about hate. That is just one of Sandeen’s favorite “club words.” I doubt anyone hates Sandeen, but I know many hate his silly positions.
Second, while I will not, as Sandeen constantly does, presume to speak for others, I am not a member of the “trans community.” I suspect others here would say the say, but I leave that for them to say.
Third, “violence?” Give me a break. No one has physically assaulted Sandeen. They have just called him on his ridiculous claims.
Fourth, the issue is not that Sandeen had a castration, or didn’t have a vaginoplasty. The issue is that, in an arrogant slap at true transsexuals (yes, that is a legitimate terms, which originated with Harry Benjamin) Sandeen made the outrageous claim that such surgery was “genital RECONSTRUCTION surgery.” There was no reconstruction, there was no change in his sexual characteristics, there was nothing except the removal of his testicles. And worse, he stated that he had this surgery so he could change his birth certificate, which is effectively bragging that he plans to perpetuate fraud. In fact, when someone had the audacity to point this point out on Mr. Sandeen’s blog, he had them banned from commenting.
Fifth, no, it is not a matter of Sandeen not being “transsexual” enough. You either are, or you are not, and well, Sandeen is not a transsexual. This of course, sounds like the “more woman than you are silliness” that one often heres about transgender men (i.e. transponders who are men, but who claim to be women). Like many men, they approach being “transgender” as competitive. In actuality, one is either a woman, or they are not. Sandeen is not.
And finally, I cannot imagine a legislative goal that I would want Sandeen, or others of his ilk, anywhere near…and quite frankly, the vast majority of legislative goals that Sandeen seeks I would almost certainly, and strongly, oppose.
Oh, and one last thing…perhaps Sandeen would like to explain how his little effort at causing me real harm in my personal life, by outing me, and attacking me to people I know, who have no involvement with him, is not an example of what he claims is “horizontal violence?”
Oh, and I really should read more carefully. I notice he did use that old silliness about being “more woman.” I have to wonder, what is the base unit of womanhood? I mean, if we are going to quantify womanhood, we need a base unit. That way, we the men who want to pretend to be women start coming up with this silliness they can back it up with details. Perhaps we could call it the Eve. Then we would have to determine exactly how many “Eves” one has to have to qualify as a woman, and people could post their “Eve level.” Yes, it really is that STUPID!!!! Yes, you really are a woman, or you are not. And no, surgery does not make you a woman. But one thing is absolutely certain, having your testicles cut off so you can try to lie to a court and claim you are not a woman makes you a fraud, and could, and certainly should, make you a felon. And no, telling the truth is not violence.
Ah yes, now we have little Tommy “Jennifer” Usher with his words of wisdom. Anyone who wants to learn more about this bastion of womanhood can Google “Tommy Jennifer Usher” for the real 411.
ROTFL! Talk about nastiness. Yes, you can Google that, and learn quite a bit of stuff that is not remotely true. I have been subjected to quite a bit of harassment by a cyberstalker. And clearly, this fellow who calls himself Joann wishes to join the fun.
ROTFL! Talk about nastiness. Yes, you can Google that, and learn quite a bit of stuff that is not remotely true. I have been subjected to quite a bit of harassment by a cyberstalker. And clearly, this fellow who calls himself Joann wishes to join the fun. I wonder if this is Joann Prinzivalli, who is a regular commenter and suck-up to Sandeen on Pam’s House Blend. But one thing is absolutely clear….whoever this kook is, he has no real arguments and is resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Nastiness Jennifer? What I’ve done here is no worse than what you regularly do to other people! If anyone doubts what a kook you are, or the veracity of what can be found by Googling your name, then all they need do is visit your blog and their doubts will instantly evaporate. I have never seen anyone so obsessed with another person as you are with Autumn Sandeen!
BTW it is not an ad hominem attack to point out your hypocrisy.
And for the rest of you, here is another interesting name to Google – “Howard Thomas Usher”.
You sir, are simply nothing more than nasty. You are engaging in the very worst of behavior. Posting personal and private information about someone simply shows you truly fear the truth. No, I am not obsessed with Mr. Sandeen, But he does place himself in the position of being the poster boy for the worst of the transgender silliness. And the ad hominem is, again, posting personal and private information. You have no real arguments, so you resort to attempted bullying. Well, sir, better than you have tried and failed. I don’t back down for bullies.
While the Tee-Gees try their best to distract, and yes Zoe picking out 1 person who is HBS identified and using her as the standard barer doesn’t make for a very objective or scientific example of what those who are aligned with the HBS concept are really about.
Nonetheless Autumn is a big person and by being a public figure (unlike me or most of the real true women of operative history) Autumn places herself and her actions out for public view, “she” knows that. What is sad is Autumn seems to be unable to take the public response for Autumn’s actions.
This article is a monument to Autumn’s inability to go despite Autumn’s detractors. Who else but Autumn would have the arrogance to teach women how to pee standing up.
For the greater Gay and Lesbian audience especially the lesbians go to you tube and search for Autumn Sandeen Talks About P-Mates
The arrogance of this person is unbelievable.
– Imposing a personal standard upon others without permission is hate.
– Insulting women by using male pronouns, insulting men by using female pronouns is hate.
– Insisting that one is “more than,” using arbitrary criteria in order to elevate one’s self within some kind of false hierarchy is hate.
– engaging in historical and pseudoscientific revisionism to justify oppressing others is hate.
I know this because the right wing anti-LGTB christianists do those things all the time to maintain and increase the marginalization of the LTGB community. It’s very unfortunate, I think, to see that these egregious tactics aren’t limited to that community alone.
Emelye said;
“- Imposing a personal standard upon others without permission is hate.
– Insulting women by using male pronouns, insulting men by using female pronouns is hate.
– Insisting that one is “more than,” using arbitrary criteria in order to elevate one’s self within some kind of false hierarchy is hate.
– engaging in historical and pseudoscientific revisionism to justify oppressing others is hate.
”
None of the above is hate, calling anything you don’t like “hate” is another way of saying I have no rational way to debate the issue therefore I’m making an appeal to emotion”
The standard has already been sighted.
and it’s the State of California’s standard.
I really like this one
“- Insisting that one is “more than,” using arbitrary criteria in order to elevate one’s self within some kind of false hierarchy is hate.”
Tee-Gees do this all the time whenever a woman of operative history speaks of her life in the real world, they call the woman in question “Elitist” when no such hierarchy exists. Now we all know that such a woman of operative history is not Tee-Gee and never was, so besides imposing that arbitrary criteria on them is not only hate from the definition you made above but it’s also hijacking her identity in an attempt to marginalize her.
Hate is what You People use when you are out of debating ammunition.
In other words you resort to name calling when you have run out of bullets.
I find it telling that when I speak in general terms that a reply is written accusing me of name calling. How does that work? Did I mention anyone in particular? Or, is this an attempt at a derail to deflect criticism that the opposing position has no answer for?
I made a comment expressing my opinion regarding tactics and strategies used by certain groups. I wasn’t debating anything.
I’m a newly admitted MtF transsexual just coming to terms with myself personally, and while I certainly haven’t had ANY surgery yet, I do intend to go all the way as soon as possible. I have preliminary quotes from all my surgeons already and am aggressively saving to meet a three year goal period despite only being on hormones for about 3 months. I am not yet 30.
Personally, the idea of keeping my penis is absolutely abhorrent. For me, there really is no other choice than full SRS, however I do feel female RIGHT NOW, despite the fact that I still have it. Should I not feel like a woman until I have it removed?
Can I biologically call myself a female? No, I can’t. I can’t because I have a penis, but even further than that, I also have a Y chromosome. SRS, Mammoplasty, FFS… all these surgeries provide the cosmetic outward confirmation of inner identity but they won’t eliminate my Y chromosome.
Even when I’m finally finished with everything in my power, I’ll still be XY unless some really dramatic technological leap happens in the next couple years. Should I not be allowed to think of myself as a woman?
Frankly, I’m tired of other people defining what I may and may not do, think and believe. As a newly minted member of a very small minority group, I have enough automatic enemies without drawing distinctions over surgical status or intended surgical status.
First off, everyone of us who is now post-op was once where you are now. Yes, I felt female, and quite frankly, at times, when I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, it would be a sort of a shock to see my penis.
As to being XY, so what? Or is this important to you? To be honest, I have no idea what my chromosomes are. They are irrelevant to me. I choose not to dwell on this, but some do. Some take some bizarre pleasure in that fact. But such people are not really transsexuals. They have other issues, and are very likely to regret their surgery down the road.
Are ou aware that some women, born with vaginas, who grow up thinking of themselves as females, who tend to have extremely strong female gender identities (a consequence of the underlying condition) are born XY? Most of them have to start hormones at puberty, and will never bear children (there are anecdotal cases where exceptions are claimed), but they are women. Of course, some extremists have suggested that they be forbidden to marry, since it is alleged that they cannot marry a man because they are XY, but cannot marry a woman because, well, they have a vagina.
Don’t let the transgender extremists confuse you. There may be a few idiots who will attack you for being pre-op, but almost everyone I know who is a so-called separatist includes pre-ops as transsexuals, and as women. We don’t include so-called non-ops and liars like Sandeen, but that is another discussion.
For those who do not already know the person writing in as “Just Jennifer” is actually Jennifer Usher who is an active member of the San Francisco mental health community. Ms. Usher has lived in City supported housing at the Mission Hotel (a homeless sheltering project) since 2004 and spends her days, since she is unemployed, creating disturbances for transgendered people.
Ms Usher did have a workfare job at UCSF but was let go last September when it was discovered that she was using University computers to threaten and harrass transgendered people while on work time. This is all fully documented below.
http://transboutique.com/article.php?story=20100607155651843
Ms. Usher claims to have has GRS several years ago (from a surgeon who conviently no longer practices) but it is very doubtful that a person living in a homeless shelter could afford things like electrolysis and the psychological counseling (let alone the deductible) even if the University insurance paid for the bulk of the cost. Thus it is unclear if Ms. Usher is suffering from self-hatred of simply envy of those who live their lives in their desired gender.
Ms. Usher is well known among transgendered who go online but is really and truly an non-factor in any real discussion. It is only because the City and State support her she has a great deal of time to spew her unique opinions throughout the web.
Let’s see….I count about ten errors or outright lies in the above post. Suffice to say, it is mostly speculation by some kooks who have been cyberstalking me for years. Whoops make that 11 errors or outright lies. I had SRS, not GRS (which is often claimed to mean “gender reassignment surgery.” I changed my sex not my gender.
To correct, but just a few…. Nope, my job was not a workfare job. UCSF does not hire people under workfare. In fact, workfare is very limited in San Francisco. Mostly, it is cleaning streets or buses. There are a small number of places where people can do alternative workfare, and UCSF is not one of them. My departure from UCSF had nothing to do with my use of computers at work. That was a fantasy dreamed up by one of the cyberstalkers who wanted to believe that he had something to do with me being losing my job, he didn’t.
I had electrolysis years ago, during my first attempt at transition. As to psychological counseling….well, it was covered by the same insurance that paid for my surgery. Duh…. Some people are so desperate that they grasp at the lamest of straws. I have not lived in a shelter except for a relatively brief period in 2003. I pay rent, like anyone else. My surgery effectively cost me $250, the deductible for a hospital stay. Hardly an overwhelming burden.
Self-hatred? Nope. Envy? ROTFL! Of kooks like Sandeen who lives as an out, loud, and proud transgender (which I guess IS what he desires). Again, nope.
No, I just got tired of silliness like Sandeen’s and the harm it does to true transsexuals.
Suffice to say, this Pam character (I suspect it is Pam Spaulding) hasn’t a clue. The kook that runs TransBoutique (the last time I looked, it was pretty much defunct) is a cyberstalker who has a rather vivid imagination. I am amused by the silliness posted about me. Suffice to say, as long as they remain as ignorant as they are, their false claims are of little concern. The lead stalker is a kook who has been harassing people online for close to 20 years. A sad case, one of a couple of kooks who never had surgery, who spend time trashing people. One of them died, apparently had a stroke while at his computer enraged with hatred. The other….well, let’s just say that a lot of the things claimed about me are really bits of his own history.
Oh, and I might add, for someone who is supposed to be a non-factor in any discussion, I certainly seem to have upset you to no end… Oh well, that is my main goal. I know I won’t change the minds of kooks like Sandeen, and his ilk. But I do try to make them think. Cruel? Yes, but someone has to do it.
Interesting turn of events. Those protesting the questioning of some rather dubious, if not outright fraudulent, behavior on the part of the author of this post, one penis packing eunuch, claiming to be woman(?) and “Complainer in Chief”, Sandeen are now being subjected to the VILEST of ad hominem attacks by those very people complaining of ‘Horizontal Violence’. How very odd….Curious and curiouser.
No surprise at all Sam Sandeen forced the removal of a blog post on Enough Nonsense The rumor floating around the net is that the post was removed because SA-ET the blog’s author was threatened with being outed by the subject of the post.
As I said above how can this publication support someone who is idolizing fraud?
As for this Pam person, anybody can put up a second rate website.
Anybody can look up who owns that website simply a few clicks of a mouse.
It’s a shame Canada doesn’t have higher standards for site publishing, wouldn’t you agree Mr. Hudson.
This is the exact level the Tee-Gees play when they have no rebuttal, effectively no bullets in a war they will never win.
Keep outing people and keep making threats.
The greater society see you for what you truly are and worst of all so do your gay and lesbian brothers and sisters which is why they are slowly distancing themselves from you.
Interesting turn of events. Anne (aka Anna Rosa) of “Ella Es Asi” comments here under the sockpuppet alias of “Sam”, a male name. A Freudian slip, maybe? Curious and curiouser indeed!
Its kinda telling that of all of those who post comments condemning Autumn and others, none wish to use their real name and instead choose to hide behind aliases. Cowards one and all.
Maybe none wish to use their real names because of harassment and cyberstalking from you Tee-Gees.
By the way my Transgendered friend.
Sam is short for Samantha.
Nope. Some people just don’t care to share their private business, unlike many TGs who want to make sure everyone knows they are “chicks with dicks,” aka “cocks in frocks,” aka “not really women.” Not wishing to be known as a “TG” is not cowardly. It is just a matter of privacy and discretion something the freaks like Sandeen, and Johnny here, can’t understand nor abide.
Not wishing to be TG is no more wrong than not wishing to be a deadbeat or a low life.
But you, person without any friends, and your little pal Howard ARE TG, whether you care to admit it or not! You insist on being part of the TG community while claiming not to be a part of it. You insert yourselves into the TG community of your own free will by constantly posting commentary in TG blogs and writing about TG in your own blogs. You are obsessed with TG even more than the most obsessive TG’s I’ve known!
Like self-hating gays, you take out your self-hatred on other TG’s like Autumn. All of you really need psychiatric help.
Ah, the mating cry of the Hollow-headed Gender Fascist, “You are TG, you are TG, you are TG, whether you admit it or not.” No, sorry, you can repeat that all you want, but that was a tired meme when it was first used against people who oppose gay rights. Actually, I rarely comment in TG blogs, if only because most are so afraid of the truth that they censor anyone, and everyone who dares questions TG dogma. Self-hating? That is hilarious. But hey, if it helps you deal with your stigma, believe whatever you want. We know the truth…
I won’r even both with pointing out how your insistence on forcing the label “TG” on people shows that your remarks are actually projection… Self-hating? Go look in the mirror…
You are correct NYF, Sam IS short for Samantha and Joey, I most certainly Do NOT hate myself. In truth, I am quite pleased with myself in that I enjoy good health in my advancing years and I am well liked and respected in my REAL LIFE.
Yes. It is out of a sense of responsibility for all my many blessings that I make the effort and do my best to keep angry, hatefilled, self important jerks like you from spreading your screwball gender deconstruction dogma without a simple call to reason.
“Chicks with Dicks”!!! Give me a BREAK! Pul-leeese!!!
Well put Sam
Sorry Joann but I am not Tee-Gee I was born with a birth defect and I did the only responsible thing and had it corrected a very long time ago. I also live a very happy and satisfying life in the Female half of society. Self hating? hardly, I like myself and am liked by many outside of the Tee-Gee Matrix.
Saying that we are self hating is little more than projecting your won self hatred on real transsexuals who have corrected their birth condition and moved on to live normal lives in the Female half of society.
We are here spreading the word of truth about the Tee-Gees and their work to marginalize women of TS history, we are here help the children born with our birth condition, we are here to pass Red Pills Neo to those would be strong enough to accept the truth and are disgusted with the lies and the false reality perpetrated by the self hating Tee-Gee activists who preach a sermon of lies and false equality designed to marginalize any woman of history who wishes to live a normal life.
Find the truth Joann
Take the Red Pill.
Birth defect? Give me a break! Go tell that to a child born without fingers or legs. Tell that to my friend whose daughter was born with a hole in her heart. Claiming that your lifestyle is a birth defect is very disrespectful to those who suffer from real birth defects!
Sorry being born with transsexuality is not a lifestyle.
Are you trying to infer that gays and lesbians are not born that way but choose to live some kind of lifestyle.
I would have expected such ignorance from some backwoods hillbilly.
Not a crossdresser which is a lifestyle, you are not born that way you choose to wear your mother’s underwear.
The simple thing you have to realize is that we are arguing with people who are, quite simply, out of touch with reality. They are “true believers.” They are committed to their gender deconstruction dogma, and worse, they actually believe that a lot of people agree with them. They have completely lost their grasp on reality. They don’t realize that most people, even people who are gay or lesbian, generally see their views as complete and total crap.
Who’s really out of touch, HOWARD? Claiming that you are any kind of woman isn’t exactly what I would call being in touch with reality. Not even in the same zip code!
This is the problem I have with the whole thing. Men like you, Bill Robins (Not Your Friend), and “Sam” claim to be women even though reality says different, yet you demonize Autumn for doing the same thing! You’re nothing but hypocrites!
Speaking of not being in touch with reality, I think you have me confused with someone else.
I think also your whole point of being here is to flame people perhaps you should run off and let the big girls talk.
Let’s see…. I am accepted as a woman by society, both by strangers and people who know me, even people who know my past. I have a vagina, you and Mr. Sandeen have penises. I live as a woman, you and Mr. Sandeen live as “out, loud, and proud “trannies.” Oh well, you are not someone I plan to take advice regarding reality from.
And no, I don’t demonize Mr. Sandeen. He does a perfectly fine job of that on his on.
But thanks for letting me know I hit another nerve….
Joe…You really crack me up. What do you know about REALITY, Mz. “Chick with a DicK”?
ROFLMAO
The lady in the red is a moron. This young lady was never born a male, she was born a female in a male’s body. Her psychology has already decided for her that she is a female and she wants her body to express who she is. In other words, it’s not some fad or big decision to make, she ALWAYS was a female and she will always be a female, her “decision” was made at conception.
Ah the dripping lateral hostility.
It is tragic that this small minority of ‘true transsexuals’ have such venom and hatred to all the others in the TG community. This appears to be an internalised transphobia in themselves. If it was not then they would be just going along in their lives under stealth living as women and would have nothing to do or say about TGs at all. The fact that they keep coming back to attack others is telling in itself.
Some go to incredible extremes of hatred, even to the point of trying to suck up to TERFs (and the like). I read an amusing thread where one (quite well known one) tried that at a TERF TG hate site by agreeing with them on certain anti TG things….and got shot down in flames, misgendered, the lot….it made my day, because she often makes a habit of misgendering and accusing other TGs of being sexual perverts.
There seems to be certain characteristics about those ‘true trans haters’ , though to be fair they are not all the same (some are worse than others).
Most of them hate trans children and want them to suffer, even risk their lives.
As stated above by one, they nearly all agree that no one should be able to change legal docs until they have GRS. But that is not possible until they are 16-18 (depending on the country). Therefore these, who have socially transitioned younger but are legally barred from GRS must be condemned with being legal males or females, with all the risks, issues and prejudice that they will face.
This is cruel and in this they are as one with the TERFs, religious bigots and transphobics (sometimes they have little lovefests between each other about being cruel to TG children).
They tend to transition younger than many and have had GRS done (but not everyone though, one of the worst TG haters I have come across hadn’t).
Some transitioned quite a while ago, back in the dark ages when it was hard to do so and you had to fit the then very narrow sexual and looks stereotypes to be allowed.
They are passable and can fit into society as women easily.
They have short memories and cannot remember their part time crossdresser and full time, but pre surgery days with all the agonies, uncertainties and issues faced.
They have no empathy for others who, for a multitude of reasons, do not do exactly what they did, no matter how relevant and important (even heart wrenching) those decision factors are to the people involved.
They have no desire to help other TG people, especially those who are suffering the agonies of uncertainty, depression and all the other issues because of what they are feeling and are trying to work out within themselves.
They do not understand trans men at all and mostly just try to ignore that they exist, some even attack them. I wonder what surgical criteria they would want for them to be allowed legal identity changes?
Quite a few sign up to the Blanchard sexuality ‘theory’ and love to sling that nonsense word ‘autogynaphilia as a slur word at others.
These tend to fit into the Type 1 Blanchard category: that is sexually oriented towards males exclusively, very feminine boys as children, gay experiences as young males, feminine in appearance and so on, ‘homosexual transsexuals’ in the parlance.
They often see those non ‘homosexual transsexuals’ as not real ‘trans’ people at all (even after GRS).
Forgetting the other part of the Blanchard ‘theory’: these ‘true trans’ people are failed feminine homosexual males, who only transition because masculine gay males won’t have sex with them, so they transition to attract straight males. Those people were also considered ‘especially suited’ to prostitution and promiscuous sex and unsuited for long term relationships.
‘True trans’ people always ignore that part of the ‘theory’…..
Others are not so much into that stuff as a reason to attack other TGs but are, like the TERFs, penis obsessed. Having one, for whatever reason, is bad (they really struggle with trans men). Obviously the first question they ask when they meet another TG person (or any woman at all for that matter) is ‘have you a penis’ since it is the most important thing to them.
So a sad bunch that I have limited sympathy for, because they wish so much harm on a lot of other TGs, especially children. But also those many who for medical, financial or other reasons cannot (or choose not to) to do GRS and by the ‘true trans’ logic must forever be barred from legal changes (thus harming their careers and even risking their lives)…as well as us having to endure endless personal attacks (misgendering and all the rest) by them, to add to the almost identical attacks by the TERFs, bigots, etc.
The TG community’s TERFs. Like for the feminists, an embarrassing off shoot that we all wish would shut up.