In the week since I wrote my last column, scheduled Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival (MWMF) performer Ubaka Hill released a statement in response to the Change.org petition asking that this year’s performers at the festival boycott the event.
She stated, “My response to your courageous request that I cancel my Drumsong Workshop and the Drumsong Performance by participating in a strategy of a boycott against my own employment, my fans, my students, my peers, my musical, spiritual and cultural community of womyn and against the collective MWMF community is this is not the method of change that I want to participate in. The old ones would say, ‘Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.’ ‘Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.’ I do listen to the teachings of the Elders. I speak only of the method and not the essential cause of which I want more inclusion in the discussion of change through peaceful dialogue and interaction. We must be watchful of horizontal hostility. There’s got to be a better way!”
As I opined recently, the womyn-born-womyn policy (WBW) has been in place for 36 of the 38 years of the festival’s existence. If talk alone could have changed the anti-transgender discriminatory policy born of prejudice, the policy would have changed long before now.
I’ve been thinking of what Martin Luther King Jr. said in the I’ve Been to the Mountaintop speech because of this situation. He talked about the parable of the Good Samaritan in the speech given on the day before he was assassinated, and how it applied to the civil rights struggles of his day. He said, “The first question which the priest and the Levite asked was: ‘If I stop to help this man, what will happen to me?’ But … the Good Samaritan reversed the question: ‘If I do not stop to help this man, what will happen to him?’”
It was three years ago this month I took to the White House fence with five other military veterans toward repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell (DADT). I put on the line in that protest.
Being retired from the U.S. Navy I receive a pension, and therefore I’m still subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Navy Uniform Regulations state that as I’m a retiree I’m not allowed to protest in uniform. Failure to obey that regulation meant that if convicted at court martial, as was possible, I could have received as a maximum sentence forfeiture of my military pension, a dishonorable discharge, and confinement at a military brig for two years. And, if sentenced to the brig, I would have been confined with men because at the time the Department of Defense (DOD) considered me male.
I’m also a disabled veteran with service connected disabilities. If the character of my discharge changed from an honorable discharge to a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge, it would’ve resulted in my losing my VA disability pay and my VA health care.
Repeal of DADT didn’t change the DOD regulations on trans servicemembers. If one is trans, one isn’t allowed to join; if one is found to be, or admits to be trans while serving, one is discharged.
Yet knowing about the possible consequences of protesting, and knowing that participating in the protest wouldn’t change things for trans servicemembers, I still chose to act like the Good Samaritan, and not like the Levite of the parable. I chose to serve my LGB community siblings in their struggle toward them being able to serve openly.
What I’m discussing the MWMF WBW policy in this context is the three evils of prejudice, discrimination and segregation. I’m not asking the Indigo Girls or Ubaka Hill to do more than I did to join the struggle against a discriminatory policy born of prejudice.
Quoting Martin Luther King Jr. again, “He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.”
It pains me to say that the performers at the MWMF – performers I know that are just trying to make a living at what they do well – are cooperating with those three evils, but they are free to do so.
But, trans people are just as free to apply pressure toward them not passively accepting evil.
I think you really should just learn to accept the simple fact that a) you are not going to be accepted by these people, and b) stop trying to do the very male act of forcing your way in where you are not welcome. Although I have to admit, I personally enjoy watching transgender extremists having major fits because a very small group of radical feminists continue to refuse to kowtow to the demands of a bunch of radical transgender activists to accept them as women….especially when the vast majority of humanity does’t begin to accept them as women.
That’s a fantastic message! If people don’t accept you, just shut up and go away (especially if they think you’re icky). Think about all the ways in which this could be applied!
Replace [trans] with:
[gay]
[lesbian]
[black]
[Hispanic]
[Muslim]
[Jewish]
[fat]
[physically or mentally challenged]
Why…it works for all of them! We should all just learn to accept that some people will never accept us and that we are not welcome. Yes!
Problems solved.
Simply put, it depends on the situation. Certain groups, oh…say, women, are not allowed to join other groups, on say, the Freemasons. Based on your logic, they should not be allowed to decide who can, and cannot, be a member. You want to force your way into a private gathering where you are not welcome. So, if, oh say, a member of Westboro Baptist Church wanted to attend a Pride Parade planning meeting, I imagine you would have no problem with that then? Or if they wanted to show up at your local transgender support group, you would welcome them with open arms, and not feel uncomfortable freely discussing issues in their presence?
I suspect, as is often the case, you are actually quite a hypocrite in regards to this matter….
Again, we are talking about a private gathering, not employment or a public event. Men, for example, which is what they consider you to be (in case you don’t understand that) are not welcome. But somehow, you are not screaming about men, who identify as men, being discriminated against here.
A “private event” that sells tickets to the public sounds an awful lot like one of them there “public accommodations” what I done heard about. If you think it’s OK to kick Nancy Burkholder out of Fest, then you also believe that hoteliers should be able to kick you out of your hotel room in the middle of the night because they don;t like lesbians, or whatever the hell you claim to be that isn’t a synecdoche.
I’m sorry, but that’s the wrong answer. Thanks for playing, anyway…
If it were not a private event, then they would legally have to admit men. But they don’t, so I guess you and yours are out of luck. Nope, it has nothing to do with hotels, which, by the way, in most states can refuse to rent to lesbians. But they can’t refuse someone because they are a woman.
And, by the way, I am not a lesbian…quite straight….and well, just a rather normal woman…
But you come to a site called LGBT Weekly to sling barbs at the T people? And you’ve got the audacity to position yourself as “normal” as opposed to being a lesbian? What was your purpose in coming here again? You seem like an outsider coming here to foment malice within the LGBT community. For shame, Period, for shame.
Ah, the joys of dealing with someone with “internalize cisphobia.” I have to say, you are really making my day. Shame??? Now, imagine if someone told you that you should be ashamed…. Really, come on…that one is too easy. I’m simply trying, clearly vainly, to get people to think. Of course, that would be more than a bit terrifying for you, wouldn’t it? Reality is scary, isn’t ti?
Thanks for being part of the problem, instead of part of the solution. Now slink off into the corner and stay out of the way.
Oh, I happen to disagree… I think I am part of the sane response to a ridiculous demand. And nope, not slinking off anywhere….
You opinion is one of bigotry and based of some sort of superiority. If I am not a “real woman” in your eyes and the eyes of the MWMF concert organizers, would you please enlighten us, as to what your and MWMF’s definition is. Also, would you do me the pleasure and tell me why you and the MWMF have the authority to make such a determination. If you think that your gender and self is solely due to you genitals, then I have to wonder how you view other people who are different from yourself, in terms of race, ethnicity, and religion.
Well, first off, I and the people at MWMF would certainly disagree on who is, and is not, a real woman. But that is NOT the issue. The issue is, they have a right to decide who can, and cannot, attend their PRIVATE event. Not you, or I, or anyone else, has a right to tell them who they MUST allow in. You don’t like that? Tough. Personally, I don’t care who they let it. But some are absolutely obsessed with it. Why? Because they somehow think they are being denied something they are entitled to.
Now, who do I think is, or is not, a real woman? Well, if you have a penis, and you want to keep your penis, and you won’t give up your penis, then….your aren’t one. And that includes those who may have SRS, but who, in a rather metaphysical way, still hang on to their penis. I think gender is determined by the sexual orientation of the brain, and that is is immutable.
Now, when someone has led a long, and successful life as a man, earning an advanced degree perhaps, and then holding a career for a long period, and becoming successful, and THEN, after showing no sign of having any real issues (being a transvestite does not count) they suddenly decide they are a woman, either at the time of retirement, or some other change (what some call a “mid-life crisis”) they suddenly decide they are “really” a woman, I would say…”GIVE ME A BREAK!”
Now, in a rather obvious, and absurd manner, you try to suggest that I am somehow a bigot. Quite frankly, unlike some here, I actually tend to see people based on, as someone once said, the content of their heart. I view people on the basis of behavior, not things like race, ethnicity, or religion.
Glad to be part of Your problem if you feel you have to intrude into private events. That is rude childish and another reason why Tee-Gees won’t be accepted by the mainstream public.
Anne
Exactly….
Awesome job exemplifying exactly what this article is about. You really prove just how far the lgbT community has come.
So while you sit there enjoying your status as a “real” woman and look down your nose at the trans community with the EXACT disdain shown to the lgb community by the “Straight community” let me remind you, sugar pop, it was trans people that made the lgbt rights movement what it is today. It began with us 40ish years ago because I guess we did the very male behavior of putting out size 10 pump clad feet down and saying ENOUGH!
There were no “trans” people at the time of Stonewall. The concept, as it exists now, was not even dreamed up then. There were some drag queens, who acted out, apparently because they were upset that Judy Garland had died. That has been perverted into a new mythology that is, well, laughable. It was only after the rise of the modern “transgender movement” in the 1990’s that such a claim was even made. Revisionist history is always interesting, but also always quite imaginary,
The irony in your comment is palpable.
In another words, simply the truth….
Simplemindedly, perhaps. Methinks your church bonnet’s on a bit tight.
Oh, and what would someone who calls herself “normal” as opposed to lesbian know about LGBY history? You just made up a bunch of crap and the capper was the bit about Judy Garland. Let me guess, are you with the FRC? The AFA? The WBC perhaps?
Thanks for playing… Better luck next time. Get back to me if you actually have a cohesive argument.
Well, it is obvious that I know quite a bit more than you. Clearly, you are getting a bit desperate. I mean, really… WBC? What’s next? Calling me a Nazi? I think it is way past time you realized you have lost the argument, and are simply proving it.
You’re so cute up on that high horse. Try not to fall
I don’t plan to….
Autumn you would do better to quote Harvey Milk, someone of your own kind than to quote a man who’s religion was soundly based in traditional values the very things you and others who are Out Proud and Complaining are against.
For you to pervert the message of MLK is at best stomach turning and at worst offensive to anybody who know better and was there.
Leave the lesbians alone, you wouldn’t want straight hells angles to attend your transgender support group meeting with their NAZI friends. would you let them?
Hell no.
Anne
MWMF was formed upon an ideology that has a goal of creating a world without trans folk in it. The MWMF is very clear about holding true to that goal and having a ‘land’ which is free from all trans identity.
Trans exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs ) worked hard to exclude the trans community in Pride events from the start. They hunted and outed trans folk to their employers in the hope of ending careers. They worked with known racists to shut down access to health care for trans folk (have issues getting trans health care? thank the very TERF ideology being spread at the MWMF) and then lobbied two US administrations to institute a national program of forced reparative therapy for trans folk. TERF leaders asserted that trans folk should be legislated out of existence. TERFs can and do stand in opposition to trans equality laws and even recently asked that the UN remove trans protections from the books. TERFs killed Filisa Vistima with the exact same poison which is publicly defended, cultivated and spread via the MWMF and so yeah… f*ck that.
I’m not willing to pretend that the ideology they wish to spread through their indoctrination-festival is okay and I’m not willing to pretend that it doesn’t harm my community. Shame on any woman who willingly supports that kind of suffering! Shame on anyone who’s willing to pretend that the ideology cultivated at this TERF-camp doesn’t produce very real harm! Shame on anyone who would defend such demonstrable harm with art!
Have you ever heard of the concept of
Freedom of Association?
Its a right in America, if you have a problem with it get the hell out and go live a country that forces people to accept everyone.
This is a free country and if you don’t like that leave.
Otherwise STFU.
Well, now I believe in the rights of people, even people with crackpot ideas, to express themselves, so I would never tell someone to shut up if they disagree. For one thing, I believe that the best answer to crackpots is the harsh light of reality. Look at what happened in Boston. That is what happens when groups are left in darkness to plot and plan.
There is absolutely no chance they will succeed, so let them rant. It is really kind of amusing. And it exposes two ridiculously extreme views to public scrutiny, and that will help bring about reason….
Isn’t that exactly the same argument used to prevent women from joining “social clubs” where most of the local business and politics gets done? And to prevent black people from eating at certain lunch counters. When you are THIS FAR OVER THE LINE into the wrong side of history, perhaps it is you who needs to STFU. All due respect.
Yes, and one which has been used quite legally, unfortunately. You see, we live in an imperfect world. Things are not always the way they should be. But, women has managed to deal with it. Funny how the boys go to pieces when they don’t get their way, whereas, women work around it.
So hey, I suggest you get a clue, and get a life. But what the heck, you are good for a laugh or two….
You go to pieces just imagining that the strong-jawed womyn sitting next to you at a campfire MIGHT BE a trans woman, so your “tough guy” act is rather pathetic. You can’t seem to “work around” your terrible terrible bigotry.
I tend to prefer the great indoors to sitting around campfires. And as long as that person is not in the restroom, or worse, a shower room or locker room, I could care less. You really just don’t get it, do you? But, this is one of the most amusing debates I have had in some time. I don’t know about you, but I am having a blast, and no, I am not going to pieces. I am laughing, though.
Have you heard the concept of a strawman argument? Post into a reply where I assert that bigots can’t associate with each other. Deal with the substance of my reply or admit that your position is untenable. Either the ideology informing, being cultivated and spread there is demonstrably harmful to the trans population or it isn’t. If you’re going to assert that it isn’t, then provide some evidence to support your assertion.
Yes, and I have seen you use them all the time. I am also quite familiar with your tendency to try to define the terms of a debate by using them, as you are here. Your debating techniques tend to towards abuse. Now, you have made a rather absurd assertion (a typical approach for you) and I have challenged it. You offered no evidence, and I am calling you on it. And yet, you are trying to dodge that by demanding that I prove a negative (a very dishonest approach that is one of your favorites). You claim connections that are not there. On your joke of a website, the assertion is made that 50,000 people have died because of a rather obscure article written by Janice Raymond. No real evidence is offered, other than the statement that 50,000 is “a very, very conservative estimate of the number of additional deaths…” No, it is a number that someone made up. It is not conservative….it is imaginary. During the time addressed, the number of people having sex reassignment surgery actually increased, and the surgery actually became easier to obtain. Oh, and in the article, published on a web site you maintain, a rather silly attempt to link what Raymond said is compared to a statement by Heinrich Himmler, which would be a Godwin Law violation. And we all know what that means…
So, sorry, you come in here peddling imaginary ideas, and I point it out…now, try again please, but don’t try pulling your usual bully boy approach of making demands about how the argument is going to go.
Oh, and really, calling something a straw man argument, when that is not even remotely appropriate….give me a break!
Actually, if I am not mistaken, MWMF is actually founded upon an ideology that desires, somewhat unrealistically, a world without MEN in it. At least in the past, they were called lesbian separatists. They want nothing to do with men, and are quite radical about. It actually has very little, if anything, to with “trans identity” beyond their rather strongly held belief that people who have, or who ever had, a penis (or perhaps even a Y chromosome) are now, and forever men. They don’t want you because you’re trans, they don’t want you because they see you as men.
Now, beyond that, we slip the bounds of reality, and well….I love a good conspiracy theory….but this not one. I mean, really….this bit of histrionics, which is a recent invention of Williams, and a certain person from Australia who claims to have “spontaneously” changed from a man to a woman (seriously folks, I am NOT making this up) is quite hysterically funny. Funny, I never once encountered this force reparative therapy, nor have I ever heard of such an effort. Perhaps it was super, duper top secret and known only to the secret lesbian separatist cabal…. Known racists? Funny, but since the 1950’s, transsexuals have been accessing medical care without that much trouble. I know when I started in the early 1990’s, I had no trouble at all, and I was in the Deep South (any deeper, and you would be in way over your head). Yeah, I suppose it is possible that a group of extremists might have advocated legislating “trans folk” out of existence. I remember a lot of radical groups that have advocated a lot of laughable ideas. Let’s see, at one time or the other, I have heard of groups who want to give the country back to Native Americans, of a group that wanted to force all white people out of the states that formed the Confederacy and create an exclusively African-American nation, of people who want to ban the consumption of meat, of people who want to execute anyone who is gay, that men should be allowed to invade women’s shower and locker rooms and that women should accept then as “women with penises”…the list could go on, and on. For the most part, sane, rational people learn about such ideas, recognize them for what they are…the rants of crackpots, hope the person does not become violent (like the guy who got it in his head that there is a black market in human body parts and then possibly sent ricin laced letters to a senator and Obama) and get on with our lives. Oh, we might speak up if the person gets a bit of attention, but we generally seem them as the kooks that they are.
Anyway, thanks for a good laugh….
Oh, and the only thing I am defending is the right of one group to privacy. Quite frankly, if you wanted, as I pointed out, the right to exclude members of the Westboro Baptist Church from a meeting of your group, I would also defend your right to do so.
As to Filisa Vistima, this was clearly a person with serious mental health issues. To claim that person was “killed by TERFs” is absurd. Suicide is a solitary act, which may be in response to others, but it is the responsibility of the person taking their own life. If a person allows the opinions of others to affect them, then that person is responsible, not the person expressing an poinion. For example, if someone killed their self because they were so distraught over William’s laughable claim to have called the death of transsexuals separatists (personally, I had a good laugh, myself) would Williams accept responsibility for that person’s death? Hardly… What Williams desires is tyranny, the right to dictate to others what is, and is not acceptable.
Oh, and it is interesting that you bring up the topic of contacting people’s employers (even if somewhat mistaken as to who that might be). A certain author of a certain column that we happen to be commenting on did exactly that to me, and I believe others. But, I guess that is okay, because said person is transgender….and I am not.
It’s Jennifer “‘more than a transvestite not a transsexual,’ but just a woman except when I’m just a H-BSer” Usher, the professional troll who obsessively stalks Autumn. How many posts have you made dedicated to Autumn? How much time do you spend trolling her posts? Do you think anyone else in the entire world is as fixated upon Autumn like you are? Name one. Go on, I dare you.
If anyone wants to see just how creepy her obsession is, here’s a google link: http://tinyurl.com/JenniferUshersObsession
In what reality is this considered normal behavior?
Go on with your signature move, Jennifer: Claim to be a victim because I dared notice and talk about your creepiness, assert that noticing your creepiness is a violation of your privacy, assert that this is typical for everyone who’s not as creepy as yourself, misgender everyone, assert that your google history isn’t real and then claim to be a victim.
No, you’re not creepy, are you? You’re a victim… the last rational mind in a world on TeeGees gone mad. You can see clearly that you *need* to follow people like Autumn around, comment on her every move, and write pages upon pages of personal attacks aimed at her because it’s just a normal and reasonable response, right? It’s not you that’s stalking Autumn, it’s Autumn that’s stalking you. In fact, you’re being stalked right now because I’ve replied to you, right? It’s not that you were using university servers to track and stalk people (and got fired for it), you were being stalked and and for some inexplicable reason, your employment ended just after you were reported. You’re not the problem, you’re the solution, right?
Of course, assert that this is one big ad hominem attack instead of a post which reviews and disparagingly comments on your demonstrable obsessive and creepy behavior. Go on, tell everyone how you were a victim when you were caught stalking people using University servers. Go on, tell everyone how reasonable it is to spend so much time writing about Autumn. Because, you’re not crazy, it’s everyone else – especially the people who are the focus of your obsession – that’s crazy, right?
Oh, I just noticed what Williams was replying to… I guess Sandeen doesn’t like certain dirty laundry being aired….
Aha, lol.
I can think of few things more befitting this piece than the first two comments being that of a TERF and a bible banger agreeing with each other.
“A Woman, Period” and “sd woman” – you two deserve each other.
Well, I don’t know who you think is who, but a) you haven’t a clue, and b) well, I won’t speak for sd woman, but I am neither. But I do love how you engage in the same behavior you claim to object to… Really, I suggest you either work very hard to improve your reading comprehension, or perhaps even better, take a bit of time to go back and read my previous comments. Then get back to me on those labels….
Yes, I figured out later that you’re just an HBSer, not a TERF. Your rhetoric is often indistinguishable. Hey guess what? No matter how much you adopt the attributes and the attitudes of the people that oppress you they will *never* regard you as anything other than freak.
“House Negro” was the term used for the black slave version of you pre-abolition. Stepford wife is probably as close as it in more modern terms.
I used to feel the same way you do, which is pretty much why I have *no* sympathy for that viewpoint any longer. It’s garbage, and the only thing it does is victimize you again, along with others you hate, despite having found themselves in similar situations with similar struggles.
“But I do love how you engage in the same behavior you claim to object to” – Oh my, you got all that from my initial post? No, what that is sweetie, is projection. It’s a helluva drug.
I’m sorry that your crippling emotional baggage seems to have scarred you so deeply that you’ll adopt the worst traits of those that hate you, but it still doesn’t excuse bad behavior.
Wow, what a load of psychobabble…. Right out of the TG extremist playbook. HBSer? Well, I think it is a pretty good term, and if you mean I am one of those people who thinks that there is a difference between someone who is a true transsexual, and a fetish-fueled crossdresser who has become carried away (also known as someone who is grounded in reality) yes, I am guilty as charged, and make no apologies.
Personally, I don’t agree with most of the silliness of those you choose to dismiss with a label like TERF. But, I do recognize where they are right (the vast majority of TGs are men who have no comprehension of what being a woman is) and I respect their right to hold their opinions. Yes, I have seen your kind way too many times, and to be honest, and quite blunt, I still get a laugh from how seriously you take yourself. You really have no idea just how silly you sound….I mean, projection? And crippling emotional baggage? Am I supposed to be rendered speechless by such malarky? Yeah, trite psychobabble… Classic club words, but they only work on people too foolish to see you as you really are.
Sorry, but no one oppresses me. First off, I don’t let them. I am quite secure in my identity. Second, unlike the TG crowd, I actually live as a woman, not a transgender.
So, peddle your crap to someone stupid enough to buy it…
While I don’t care much for the radical feminists I do, and make no mistake I DO support their right to choose who they associate with. The fact you Tee-Gees are whining over being left out of an event for people who have much in common with each other and you can’t stand to be left out when nearly all of you don’t share their life experiences says volumes for lack of manners and maturity, Now go to your room and think about your actions, when you can play nice with the other boys and girls you can come out.
Anne
It is a matter of basic freedoms. I don’t care for a lot of groups, but I will defend their free speech rights, their right to choose who to associate with, and such. But, extremists often think they can dictate such things.
danah gaz
Don’t make me laugh.
Nobody is keeping you out of public places, just private events where the people involved get to choose whom they want to attend.
How would you like it if a bunch of Hells Angles wanted to attend Tee-Gee events?
Wouldn’t make you feel uncomfortable?
Shouldn’t you have the right to not have then attend your private events?
Shouldn’t you have the right to have Tee-Gee only events?
Anne
Exactly. Personally, I find the whole thing hilarious. I mean, do they REALLY think that in the unlikely event that they force their way into MWMF they will be welcomed with open arms? If they did succeed, they would get a cold shoulder from most of the attendees. They would not find, as I suspect they imagine, instant acceptance into the womanhood. They would be stared at, shunned, mocked, laughed at, pointed out, excluded from conversations, and pariahs in general. Shoot, it ALMOST makes me wish they would get in, just to seem them humiliated.
I have no intention on attending the MWMF, and never have.
I also don’t attend “Tee Gee” events.
You have nothing to worry about.
However, when a group exerts their own privilege and excludes a sub-group that is more marginalized, I do have a problem with that. Your “Hells angels” analogy doesn’t hold, and wouldn’t apply to that.
In any case, I don’t believe in showing up someplace where I’m clearly not wanted, such as a “WBW” event. Instead, I’ll just do my part to raise awareness of WBW policies to those that *would* participate. In the MWMF case, It seems to be working. If this keeps up, it won’t be long before it’s nothing more than a few organizers and Cathy Brennan singing kumbaya around a campfire.
The other problem I have with this whole thing is that many of you deny the transsexual condition of GD (in particular) and their experiences in an attempt to justify it.
Frankly, I can overlook the exclusion of trans people from this event. I can’t ignore the disgusting ways many of you justify it.
Wow, delusional much? Didn’t you read the article? The performers are paying PC lip service to the “boys in dresses” crowd, and still showing up at MWMF.
I don’t deny anything. I survived it, and overcame it. What I love are the men, who, after long and successful careers, suddenly decide they are transsexuals (now that it is safe) and claim to have suffered oh, so much….
You don’t get it, do you? Women really don’t want a bunch of boys in dresses invading. Women in general don’t, and a bunch of man-hating lesbian separatists sure don’t.
I can guarantee you that none of the strident voices here, whining about this, actually spend much time actually interacting with real, NORMAL, women (as opposed to your fellow TGs). I would venture to bet that if you have any friends who are not fellow TGs, they probably have some quirks of their own…like poor self-esteem.
No you are not raising awareness you are picking a fight with a a subgroup of the LGBT and your intent is to divide not unite. Your goal is to be disrespectful of others freedom to choose who they wish to associate with.
You are in it for the fight, and the kindling of negative energy.
In short
You are a troll.
Anne
No doubt….
Speaking of evil, here are a couple of commenters who embrace it.
So, disagreeing with your extremist views is evil? I don’t think so… But seriously, thanks for a good laugh this morning.
Why do bigots deserve “space” to be bigoted? We never accepted that as a condition for civil equality in the past, why is it that now that trans people have overcome the base-level animosity for their rights to even be brought up that bigots get the room to be bigots and we can’t confront them over it? AWP and SDW, you deserve to be feeling extremely ashamed of yourselves.
Well, it is based on a concept you obviously are unfamiliar with…the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. It speaks of the right to peaceably assemble, and to free speech and press, which has been more broadly interpreted as the right to free expression. You see, just as you have a right to express unpopular views, like the idea that women have penises (and want to keep them), and that men have a right to enter spaces set aside for the use of women (well, provided that man claims, at least for the moment, that he “feels like a woman” even if he acts totally like a man…it is still unclear if he actually has to put on women’s clothing), other people have the right to express their views, even if you find them offensive. Of course you can confront people over what you perceive as bigotry, just as I, and others, have a right to confront you over what we consider to be outrageous and socially unacceptable behavior. Oh, and a hint, opposing behavior is not generally accepted as a basis for bigotry. It is bigotry if you hate someone for something they cannot help…being a certain race, being a certain sex, being a certain nationality, etc. Now, if someone, for example, claims they have the right to act in an unacceptable manner because they are a certain race, or nationality, and they are sanctioned for that behavior, it is not bigotry.
And nope, not ashamed at all. Unlike you, I don’t suffer from internalized cisphobia.
Wait, are you saying that MWMFs WBW is inclusive of post op transsexual women now, because I’ve seen nothing about that other than an assertion that their is a “defacto” acceptance of that. When I see WBW, I assume you mean exclusive of trans women, PERIOD. If I’m mistaken, I’d love to see a clarification of that from the MWMF organizers. I’ve assumed Nancy Burkholder was post-op when she was evicted from the event in 1991.
Let me make this simple for you. True transsexuals, who are relatively rare, are women, period. (Now are you getting it?) You would try to dismiss them with some nastiness like, oh, passing privilege. It is not just a matter of looking like a woman, but of actually being a woman. Yeah, I know, you are sitting there going….but, but, but… If a woman, even one born transsexual, goes to MWMF, they are not going to check for surgical scars, etc. I have known TGs who were totally, as some would say, “passable,” until they opened their mouth. And I don’t mean they sounded like a man…I mean, they were a man, They had a male attitude, they were a parody of a woman, and a bad one at that. And those are the exceptions. Most look like bad jokes. They don’t have the foggiest idea of how women dress, act, think….they are so clearly men it hurts.
Yeah, I know…you don’t get it. I am making no sense to you at all…. Been there, done that…. I have worked with transgender people. It was not a pretty picture. I met a few women, and a lot of men in dresses.
The sad fact that I have found being a transgender person is that Gay men and women do not support our situation as much as everyone seem to assume. I have been attacked by lesbians saying I am trying to steal their ‘womanhood’ and abandoned by any gay male friends I had as soon as I became post operative. It is only the transgender community who can change society and thinking to ensure our equality in this world. Be proud and never deny to anyone who you are. God Bless us all.
Yeah, funny how that works. When you behave in a manner that people generally find unacceptable, and claim you have a right to act in that manner, people tend to shy away from you, and don’t really want to support you, And yes, transgender people (as opposed to those who actually are transsexual) do tend to do things that might be interpreted as trying to steal “womanhood.” I mean, really, an awful lot of transgender people really do look and act like bad caricatures of women. And even in cases where they make an effort to “look like normal women,” well, go and read some of the silliness espoused by the Lord High Transvestite, Arnold Lowman, aka “Virginia Prince.” it was insulting to women, and is a hoot to boot.
And well, quite frankly, you pretty much have equality. What you want is license…that is, you want BEHAVIOR that is unacceptable allowed because of who you claim to be.
MichFest is a private event. Individuals that host such things are free to invite who they choose to do so. Any attempt to force a change is, by its very essence, an attempt to silence the voices of those who host the event. it is sadly ironic that trans* seeks to silence the voices of females, the demographic they attempt to mimic…and in so silencing, they do so in a manner that follows a lengthy pattern of men attempting to tell women what to do and how to do things.
The silencing continues through the use of terms such as TERF. All that such terms do is continue to prove the basic point that trans* wants it their way and their way only. Nobody else is entitled to have an opinion that might, goddess forbid, hurt somebody’s special snowflake feelings.
There are discussions, bonds and spiritual events that only those who were born female and who have lived the female life will ever fully grasp. Females are entitled to have those spaces free from ANY individual who exudes (or exuded at any time in their lives) a male energy.
You are wasting your breath they want to force themselves on you.
How typically male is that?
Anne
Wow, extremely well put! As I have said, I personally have no desire to attend MWMF. The one person I know who did attend, a former boss, found it a quite miserable experience and said she would never go back (she went because her partner wanted to go).
I am sure there are points we would disagree on, but you have done a very good job of presenting a reasonable, and rational argument that should, and would in any reasonable and rational discussion, lay the matter to rest.
Of course… No one has ever accused the transgender extremists of being rational, or reasonable,
MichFest wouldn’t even be an issue, if not for the fact that some transwomen see attending it as some sort of merit badge in their quest for womanhood, right up there with such things as dating a lesbian and joining the feminist movement.
Too true… And, ironically, all things that most women have no desire to do.
I think Autumn and other transwomen who want so badly to invade MichFest need to think long and hard about their true motivations.
I thought you were on Sandeen’s side… But thanks for making a major part of my argument for me….
I’m not on anyone’s “side”. Your male socialization is showing again.
Ah, now that’s the Jenna we have all come know, and laugh at… Your non sequiturs are delightful.
Dude, you’re gross. Go away.
How childish…is this an elementary schoolyard?
Don’t you have some transgender activists to badmouth on your blog, Howard?
Wow, Sandeen is REALLY getting desperate…. In any case, I have been called worse.
“A Woman Period” Is a troll. “She” might believe some of the filth “she” is posting but “she” is actually just doing it to tick people off, and cause trouble. This is a clear case of trolling and I’m sorry I didn’t recognize it. Trolls reply endlessly to every comment. Not because they have anything of value to offer, which “she” obviously doesn’t, but because “she” wants to keep the angry crap going. I haven’t actually seen such a fat happy little troll since the days of usenet. Please “A woman period”, aren’t there poor children you need to harass from under a bridge somewhere? Everyone else, remember the rules in the zoo. Don’t Feed the Trolls.
Nope… But I am making people do something they despise…and that is face reality. Most here are going crazy trying to avoid the truth. Actually, I am simply posting reality, which is anathema to the TG crowd.
If this is embracing evil, I embrace it with both arms and both legs.
Anne
No, I would say that calling it evil is hyperbole atest, and maybe delusional…or both. I guess, for some, not gettin their way is evil. Or even mere disagreement.
I guess Sandeen is whining about a woman saying too much….
This is another example of Sandeen, and some other transgender extremists, having no respect for a woman’s wish to maintain privacy and safety. This is very well documented on more than a few blogs on line. Even when women have explained why they wish to maintain their privacy, Sandeen will continue to badger them in an attempt to get information that can be used to invade their privacy, and possibly put them in danger. I have had to put up with cyberstalkers, including Sandeen, making threats and attempting to mess with my private life.
Interesting…several posts have gone missing, specifically ones where Sandeen mentioned my name, and the ones where I responded and complained. But they seemed to have missed the one where Williams also mentioned my name. It would be nice if they would get rid of that one as well….
Uh, that post would be under the name “Cristan.”
Simply wish to say your article is as surprising. The clearness for your put up is simply excellent and that i could think you’re an expert on this subject. Well along with your permission let me to grasp your feed to stay updated with drawing close post. Thanks 1,000,000 and please keep up the gratifying work.