An anti-hate-crime fund originally endowed by and for the LGBT community is likely to contribute an additional $5,000 to augment a reward being offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator(s) of an arson hate crime against a San Diego Jehovah’s Witness Kingdom Hall – a church noted for its opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples.
The idea of contributing additional reward money is being promulgated by LGBT activists and community leaders, such as Nicole Murray Ramirez (who is also a columnist for San Diego LGBT Weekly), San Diego Human Relations Commission (SDHRC) chair, Bruce Abrams, and San Diego City Councilman Todd Gloria – among others.
“When I saw this had happened, I thought, ‘Hey, we should help them with a contribution to the reward fund – maybe with $5,000 or so,’” Ramirez said. “That should help find the people who committed this despicable act.”
According to Councilman Gloria’s office, deliberately set fires occurred at the Jehovah’s Witness Kingdom Hall Dec. 20 and Dec. 30, 2011, while another arson attempt was made at 12:30 a.m., Jan. 3.
Nicole Murray Ramirez, who is considered by many to be a local and national civil rights legend and a loud voice for the cause of LGBT rights and equality, told San Diego LGBT Weekly he has no qualms about helping a congregation that has long opposed the very concepts for which he has spent a lifetime fighting.
“A hate crime is a hate crime is a hate crime,” Ramirez said. “We’re talking about a church; a place where people go for spirituality. I may not agree with their positions against equal rights for all Americans, but I’m sure not going to shrink from my responsibility to stand up in support of anyone who’s been victimized by the kind of violence that kept our community in the shadows for so long.”
San Diego human relations executive director, Danell Scarborough, who worked with Ramirez during his multi-term stint as an SDHRC commissioner, isn’t surprised by Ramirez’ and other LGBT leaders’ desires to help the local Jehovah’s Witness congregation during its hour of need.
“I think the LGBT leaders I’ve come into contact with see the need to protect all people and stand up for their freedoms and rights, regardless of who they are or what they believe in,” Scarborough said. “Nicole has always said we’ve got to carry water for each other; that’s how we create a diverse and respectful community.”
Councilman Todd Gloria, who is gay and whose district is home to the church on Adams Avenue, is also sounding a call for support for the local Kingdom Hall congregation and for information about the crime.
“San Diegans must stand together against these senseless acts,” said Gloria. “I encourage anyone with information about the crimes to tell the authorities. Crime doesn’t pay, but helping catch the responsible criminals may yield a reward.”
Metro Arson Strike Team is currently investigating the crime. Anyone with information related to the arson is asked to call arson investigators at 619-236-6815, or to remain anonymous, calls can be made to San Diego County Crime Stoppers at 888-580-8477 or send an anonymous text or Web tip at sdcrimestoppers.com.
I applaud you for your expression of human solidarity. However, you clearly have little grasp of this ‘church’ and it’s practices. “creating a diverse and respectful community” is far beyond what they are capable of. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not respect anyone but each other and the householder they’re calling on, up to the point when they are inevitably rejected. You are almost literally pissing up a rope.
That must be why they dont go to war or take sides in political feuds…their global disrespect everyone.
stephcancook,
They don’t go to war or take sides in political feuds for religious reasons.
I think the religiously motivated ‘reasons’ are wrong and they do have
a global disrespect of everyone. Your just an ignorant fool who doesn’t
know what they are saying.
Mr Riches, you know obviously very little about these people. I have been acquainted with these people for nearly 40 years now and can tell you, on the whole, they are the kind of people you’d wish for neighbours. They don’t lie, cheat, steal, they mind their own business, and yet they would give you the shirt off their backs, if necessary. They call regularly with the Bible with a positive messages of Peace & security for the future, at a time when people needs good news the most..
They come as close to Jesus and his 1st century disciples as you can come, according to the Encyclopedia Canadiana. In other words, as a group, they come closest to primitive Christianity as you could find.
According to an editorial in the Sacramento Union, “Suffice it to say that if all the world lived by the creed of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, there would be and end of bloodshed and hatred, and love would reign as king”.
Based on what full scale perspective?
Duowlshake,
Yes based on what full scale perspective.
Alexis Klatt must represent the promotion of propaganda branch of the Watchtower SOCIETY. Every time Jw’s talk about their organization they are lying. They cheat potential converts with their “bait and switch”. pretending to offer bible studies when in reality they are indoctrinating their victims with Watchtower ideology. They steal their victims right to conscience. However they DO mind their own business, it’s a polite way of explaining their “group think” as they are little spies on each other. Yes people need the good news, and those who find it are not Jw’s or are soon to be Ex-Jw’s. Yes the governing body would have its drones expound that they are close to 1st century Christians. But does that mean that they are close to Jehovah, or better yet is Jehovah close to them. They preach a negative religion, the same Christ warned against in his message to the Scribes and Pharisees. Contorting and re-wording the scriptures to fit Watchtower beliefs. Suffice it to say that if all the world were to live by the creed of JW’s self hatred, cruel justification for unchristian behavior and psychological distress would rear its ugly head as the Governing Body would reign supreme.
Rae,
Alexis Katt probably does represent the promotion of propaganda of
The Washtowel Church Society. Everytime the JW’s talk of their religion they are indeed lying about many things. They cheat potential converts with their bait and switch and pretend to offer initiation of introducing them to the theology from the fictional Booble interpretation they have and indoctrinate them with Washtowel idealogy too. They steal their victims right to conscience but don’t all religions? They do mind their own business sometimes and it’s their way of explaining their group think and they are indeed spies on each other and no people do not need what is not ‘good news’ and those who do not need to ‘find it’ are not the JW’s or anyone else. Not even soon to be ex-JW’s.
Yes the church leaders have it drones expound the false notuion that they are close to the foolish 1st century christianites. That does not mean they are close to their false god or their false god is close to them if he existed at all. They do preach a negative religion just like
most christianite denominations preach and negative religion but it is not the same that the fictional Chrust who did not ‘warn’ against in his fictional ‘message’ to the fictional Scribesites and the Phariseeitites. Contorting and rewording fictional passages in ther fictional book to fit
the Washtowel beliefs which are just as false as any and all christianite denominations. Suffice to say that if all the world were to live by the
evil ‘creed’ of the JW’s self-hatred, outer hatred, cruel justification
for false christianite behavior that is evil and psychological distress would rear its ugly head and the crazy church leaders of their group
would reign tyranny surpreme.
Alexis Katt,
Mr. Rickes does know more than ‘very little’ about those people. You have been acquainted with these people for nearly 40 years now and can tell him
that they are the kind of people he’d ‘wish’ for ‘neighbors’. You falsely claim
none of them ‘lie, ‘cheat’, ‘steal’ and ‘mind their own business’ and you say
they’d give you their ‘shirts off their backs’ if necessary. They ‘call’ regularly with the fictional Booble with ‘positive’ messages of ‘peace and security’ for the ‘future’ at a time when people need ‘good news’ the ‘most’.
You claim they are as close to the fictional Cheesus and his equally fictional 1st century followers as a person could come according to the Encyclopedia Canadiana. You say that as a group they come closest to ‘primitive’
christianitism as a person could find.
According to a mistaken ‘editorial’ in the Sacramento Union , they said
that if all the world lived by the immoral ‘creed’ of the Jebobah’s Witlesses
then there would be an ‘end’ of ‘all’ bloodshed , hatred and love would
‘reign as king’. Their fictional Booble has almost no ‘positive messages’
of ‘peace’ and ‘security’ for the ‘future’ and they have no ‘good news’.
I wouldn’t say that none of them ‘lie’,’cheat’, or ‘steal’ as I’m sure some do and their religious leaders have a tendency to lie. Their version of christianitism is ‘primitive’ and that’s just the problem. If we all lived
by their evil ‘creed’ then there would be more hatred, more bloodshed
and love would not reign as ‘king’ but would fade away and chaos would
reign. I wouldn’t want homophobes for neighbors.
Tim Riches,
Yes they should be applauded for this act of human solidarity. They do
have a grasp that the JW church and its practices are homophobic , but even
these lgbt individuals helped these people out of kindness. The JW’s are
very cautious of people outside their Christianite denomination.
Pissing on a rope would be true if they were trying to curry favor with the
religion yes. Helping to repair a building , no.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not and never involved in politics. They dont vote, dont lobby and cant be elected. Within their organisation and members they cant accept same-sex marriage. However they think its up to anyone without their organisation to live life as they think its right
emeth
You are not being entirely honest in your statements and as such you are quite possibly a victim of Jehovah’s Witness propaganda. The Association of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Europe is a political lobby group which has its lobbying office in Belgium and operates primarily as an NGO in Europe through the OSCE. (Google it and when you get to OSCE web site type in the search box “Jehovah’s Witnesses”)
Also, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses Inc. (CCJW) here in the US is actively involved in political lobbying (but not campaigning) and is active in trying to influence government legislation.
So much is the CCJW involved in political lobbying that it had to put a stop gap measure in its own official Certificate of Incorporation in Article IX which says “No substantial part of the activities of the corporation shall be the carrying on of propaganda, or otherwise attempt to influence legislation…”
As long as the “carrying on of propaganda” and the lobbying of politicians as an “attempt to influence legislation” does not individually form more than 50% of the work of the Jehovah’s Witness corporation (i.e. the SUBSTANTIAL part) then this is acceptable.
Of course, the wording of the above allows for a combined total of 99% of all activities being the promoting of propaganda and lobbying.
No doubt part of the propaganda and the lobbying includes informing others that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not engage in propaganda or lobbying.
The Jw’s “lobby” when they view that their rights are under threat. They have since their founding, and I don’t find this particularly problematic.
At question here is the author’s statement “a church noted for its opposition to marriage equality.” Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves do not permit such things in their organization, but to suggest they lobby the government on such matters, as you are doing here, does not make much sense. What would their leverage be, since their members do not vote nor do they participate in political campaigns? They’d go door to door even more often in a congressperson’s district?
Anyway, I don’t know what the author meant by the statement above, but it’s not correct to say JW’s oppose marriage equality in general. They do in the Kingdom Hall. Outside, they have no dog in that fight.
A church that is noted for its ‘opposition to marriage equality’ , the author stated this and true such things are ‘not ‘ permitted in their religion.
Whether the JW’s ‘oppose’ marriage equality in general is kind of
irrelevant as they are an apolitical christian denomination. They might in church, but that’s different. I think two men or two women should be allowed to marry each other civily of course. I’m an atheist and do not
agree with the JW Christian church or any other personally. Hate the religion, not the religious person, that’s what I always say.
Tom,
The JW’s lobby when they view that ‘their’ rights are under threat which is understanding, but has some hypocrisy. They have since their founding, and you don’t find this ‘particularly problematic’ , but I do
in some instances.
The authors statemet is not at question here about a church noted for its opposition to marriage equality which is true but in an apolitical
sense which is still wrong. The Jebobah’s Witlesses themselves wrongly do not permit such things in their religious institution, but the author did not suggest they ‘lobby the government on such matters’, as he did not do here, does make sense. What would their ‘leverage be’,
it would be their homophobia even though their members do not usually vote nor are they supposed to participate in political campaigns? They’d probably go door to door even more often in a congressperson’s district which is something they do at an annoying
rate already and being political door-to-door lobbyists would make
them even more worse
Anyway, you don’t know what the author meant by the statement above which shows you don’t know much but it’s is correct to say JW’s oppose marriage equality in general when they have no reason to. They wrongly do in their Churchea. Outside, they have no dog in that ‘fight’ as it is not a ‘fight’ it is merely asking for two men or two
women to have the legal right to marry each other as their heterosexual
counterparts and a right that all same-sex couples in the US and in the
world deserve to have which is to legally marry their same-sex partner.
I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I do not vote, participate in politics, etc. People who KNOW what they are talking about when referring to JWs will use correct terminology…members do not call it a church, they do occasionally defend their rights through the court systems but not in paid lobbying groups, the list of names The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society have been called in this thread is funny…you get the idea.
My son is a gay man and I love him and associate with him freely. He never chose this religion for himself. I respect his choice.
I admire the LGBT group which this thread was originally about. Everyone has gotten so concerned with Witness-bashing they are missing the point. This group reached out across idealogical divides to help a fellow group of humans in need…as would any true JW. And the LGBT group deserves recognition and praise for this mature attitude.
I truly do pray for a time when all humans will live together in peace. And I will never support any cause that tries to legislate how others live their lives (But I am glad for laws against violent crimes such as rape, arson, murder…other obvious things…otherwise, it is an individual thing/decision.)
There is no need to slam anything I have said. I won’t be checking back.
tony,
Emeth is not being entirely honest in her statements and as such you she quite possibly a victim of Jebobah’s Witless propaganda. The Religious Association of Jebobah’s Witlesses in Europe is a political lobby group which has its lobbying office in Belgium and operates primarily as an NGO in Europe through the OSCE.
Also, the Christianite Congregation of Jebobah’s Witlesses Inc. (CCJW) here in the US is actively involved in political lobbying (but not campaigning) and is active in trying to influence government legislation.
So much is the CCJW involved in political lobbying that it had to put a stop gap measure in its own official Certificate of Incorporation in Article IX which mention No substantial part of the activities of the corporation shall be the carrying on of what they wrongly call ‘propaganda’ and probably don’t know that their religion is a bunch of meaningless propaganda, or otherwise attempt to influence legislation which is a lie.
As long as the carrying on of what they call ‘propaganda’ and the lobbying of politicians as an ‘attempt’ to ‘influence ‘legislation which is part of their job, does not individually form more than 50% of the work of the Jebobah’s Witless corporation then this is ‘acceptable’ which makes
the JW church hypocritical liars.
Of course, the wording of the above allows for a combined total of 99% of all activities being the promoting of ‘propaganda’ and ‘lobbying’ done by
the JW church which is not ‘substantial’.
No doubt part of the propaganda and the lobbying includes informing others that Jebobah’s Witlesses do not engage in’ propaganda’ or ‘lobbying’ which is what the creeps do when they go door-to-door.
A sick arsonist’s deed must be deeper than an issue of mere marriage status opinion. Most of the Republican Party opposes that as can be seen by recent TV debates. Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t advertise their opinions and merely take most of them from what they feel the Bible teaches. If the arsonist were just after ‘justice’ it would be targeting everyone with that view and that probably would be other churches as well as half the population.
Harry Dunn,
The sick arsonist’s deep is not deeper than an issue of marriage status
which is not an ‘opinion’. Most of the Republicanite Party wrongly oppose it as can be seen by recent TV ‘debates’. It is not a ‘that’. There is no reason
to oppose two men or two women from legally marrying each other that
doesn’t harm most of Republicanite Party and is not any of this political group’s business. The Jebobah’s Witlesses may not advertise their
weird opinions and merely take most of them from what they feel
the fictional Booble ‘teaches’. Most of their ‘opinions’ of what they take
from what they think their desert fairytale book ‘teaches’ is wrong. If The
arsonist were just after a twisted form of’ justice’it would not be by violently targeting everyone with that
sick and bigoted ‘view’ and that would probably be other false churches as well
as what you call ‘half the population ‘who hold those bigoted views which are wrong. Half the population is wrong to hold homophobic views.
Was it acceptable for half the US population and most Republicanite Party to hate on blacks and persecute them, lynch them, destroy their institutions, prohibit them from marrying the person they love who is of a different skin color
and call them mean-spirited and nasty names and make them feel as if they are totally worthless and have no right to even exist? Huh, buttwipe?
Homophobic bigotry is not acceptable and marriage status for same-sex
couples is important and ensuring that marriage equality comes to pass in the US for all same-sex couples legally is also important and half the
us population and most of the republicanite party are wrong on their bigoted views about same-sex marriage which is a right that same-sex couples deserve to have. Punishing a man for burning a church that he does not agree with is important. He doesn’t have to agree with the church’s views, but he doesn’t have to destory their property either.
Your apologetic arguments for excusing bigotry are quite shameful,
Harry Dunn. If there’s two thing that digust me most in the world, it is bigotry and hate. Bigotry and hate should never be seen as honorable, tolerable, acceptable or good whether these evil feelings are religiously or politically motivated. Was it right of the Christianites of the Crusades to ruthlessly and unapologetically murder other religious groups that had their land taken from them, were humiliated, ostracized by their communities and make them feel as though they had no right to live
just because it was inspired by their political or religious beliefs? No.
You shouldn’t excuse bigotry and hate just because it half the population
holds these wrong views due to their fucked up religious or political beliefs. The transphobic and homophobic bigotry that is help by half the country is wrong and the religiously and politicized homophobic beliefs
of the country are also wrong. I can only hope one day you’ll think about
the harm religiously and politicized homophobic bigotry and other forms
of prejudiced can do, Harry. Grow up and wake up.
The Witnesses are not usually involved in politics and are not supposed to vote or lobby and cannot be elected unless their religious freedom were in jeopardy. Their religious institution and members sadly don’t accept same-sex
marriage. They should, but they don’t and they do thinks it is up to anyone to
live life as they think is right outside of their religion. It really isn’t the JW’s nor
any other christian denomination’s business what former or non-members do
if they are not hurting anyone. It isn’t the JW’s business what two men or two
women do with each other sexually in bed either.
emeth,
The Jebobah’s Witlesses are not involved in politics usually but I wouldn’t
say never. Their not supposed to vote and do not usually lobby and are not
able to be elected. Within their religious institution and members they ‘cannot’
as you say accept same-sex marriage. They think its up to anyone who rightfully lives ‘without’
their religious institution to live life as they think is right.
Most people get along without the JW Church. Most people get along
wonderfully without the twisted JW church in their lives.
The church and its members should accept same-sex marriage.
The church and its members have no reason why they ‘can’t’ accept
same-sex marriage, they should accept same-sex marriage. Quit
being such a homophobic bigot, emeth. Your such a horrible apologetic
for homophobic bigotry and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say “opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples.” Jehovah’s Witnesses are politically neutral and do not vote; therefore, they will never interfere with marriage equality rights laws. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not condone homosexuality on what they see as a moral issue, but will never advocate violence or political opposition to those that chose to be homosexual.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are NOT Homophobic, lets put it that way, although homosexuality is not for them.
Not homophobic? If you come out as gay while a JW, they disfellowship (excommunicate) you and all your JW friends and family are no longer allowed to even speak with you outside of “necessary family business”.
They may not be violent, they may not be active in promoting hateful laws, but they are *definitely* homophobic. *Catholics* are less homophobic, in that they view homosexuality as a sin, but not an excommunicate-able offense.
Disfellowshipping is in perfect harmony with the scriptural command at 1 Corinthians 5:13, to “remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
Everyone who becomes a baptized Witness is well aware of the Bible’s moral standards on homosexuality and other forms of fornication, and they agree to live by them. No one is forced to do this.
They are also well aware of what can happen if they decide to no longer live by those standards, and implicitly agree to them when they get baptized.
What’s more, if such a person leaves such practices behind they can be warmly welcomed back into the congregation.
A little leaven ferments the whole lump. If such practices were condoned they would become widespread.
Would you rather that they allow all sorts of wicked practices and sweep them under the rug by moving sex offenders to other Kingdom Halls? Sound familiar?
AlAnon,
Excommunication might be in ‘perfect harmony’ with the fictional
Booblical ‘command’ in the fictional book of the 1st Corinthianites
about that church having to remove the ‘wicked’ man from themselves.
Homosexuals are not ‘wicked’.
Everyone who becomes a baptized member of the Witless Church
should be well aware of the fictional Booble’s immoral ‘standards’
on homosexuality and other forms of ‘fornicationite; and they
‘agree’ to live ‘by them’. No one is forced to do this and that is true.
But, homosexuals are coerced, blackmailed and manipulated into living by these not-so-moral ‘standards’ in this interpretation of the JW
Church’s book of desert fairytales. You say that they are well aware of what can happen if they decide to no longer live by those unfair
and immoral ‘standards’ and that they ‘implicitly agree’ to them
when they become a baptized member of the Church.
What is not more, is if such a person ‘leaves’ such ‘practices’ behind
they can be ‘warmly’ welcomed back into the church congregation
they attended. If a little leaven’ ferments’ the whole lump. You can
bake a new batch of bread. If such practices which harm no one
were condoned they would become widespread and there is nothing
wrong with that. If sexually active same-sex couples were allowed
as full and equal members of the JW Church , there would
be more same-sex couples who would join and membership
would grow.
You say would people rather that they allow all sorts of ‘wicked’
practices and ‘sweep them under the rug’ by moving child molesters
to other JW Churches? Does it sound familiar? No it doesn’t. Homosexuality is not comparable to pedophilia. Nor should it be.
Homosexuality is practiced by two consenting adults of the same-sex
and it does not harm anyone. Pedophilia, dumbass, is a grown adult
having illegal and non-consensual sex with an underage teen or
pre-pubescent child. The child or teen is not of age and is not
fully developed in mind and body and may not understand all of
the joys and consequences of sexual relationships and the underaged
victim never consents to being fucked by an adult. The fictional
Booble’s ‘standard’ on homosexuality is not ‘moral’. It is immoral
, prejudiced and wrong. Homosexuality is not comparable to ‘other forms’ of ‘fornication’. Homosexuality is not a form of ‘fornication’.
There is nothing wrong with having sex without being legally married
whether you are in a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship. Two unmarried heterosexual person have the right
to have sex with each other as long as it is done between consenting
adults and doesn’t hurt anyone else. I don’t believe in the word ‘fornication’. No homosexual
should agree to live by this immoral ‘standard’. If a gay or lesbian person decides to no longer life by those immoral ‘standards’ and
be in a same-sex relationship , then good for the homosexual or
lesbian. No homosexual should ‘implicitally agree’ to such bigoted
‘standards’. Homosexuals have no reason to leave such practices
behind as these practices harm no one and are strictly between
consenting adults. I think it’s hypocritical that your church would
only ‘warmly’ welcome them back into membership if they agreed
to accept themselves as ‘inherently inferior’ and ‘evil’ compared to
heterosexuals and are given the absurd option of being in a mixed-
orientation ‘marriage’ to a heterosexual person who is someone they are not, cannot and never will be attracted to or even the more bizarre
option of leading a lonely and miserable life of romantic and sexual
repression until death which is abnormal, unnatural, unhealthy,
immoral and even dangerous. If your church allowed all sorts of practices such as consensual homosexual relationships to occur in their congregations between adults which are not ‘wicked’ and are not
harming anyone than who would care? Even if unmarried heterosexual couples were allowed membership and were in love
with and commited to each other since it does not harm anyone
who would care? Romantically and sexually active relationships
between two men or two women or between two unmarried heterosexual couples as done by consenting adults harm no
one and they are not ‘wicked’ practices and if such practices
are condoned as they should be, then why shouldn’t they become
widespread. They already are widespread and do no harm and
they are between consenting adults. Homosexuals are born
gay and so it can not ‘become widespread’. The more people that
give birth to children. The more homosexuals and other lgbt people
there will be as homosexuals and lgbt people are born gay or lgbt.
No homosexual should ‘leave’ such practices ‘behind’ as two men
or two women having a consensual romantically and sexually active relationship with each other is not hurting anybody is the only acceptable option
for them as a same-sex oriented person.The word homosexual means a person who is romantically
and sexually active and involved with the same-sex , not a person
who lives an abnormal and unnatural life of romantic and sexual
repression, dumbass. The JWs do move child molesters from church to church and doesn’t
give them any sort of true justice-seeking punishment . You should know that pedophila is a crime and is not condemned in your book of fairytales. Just because a pedophile tells the leaders of the JW Church that they are sorry for hurting underaged teens and children doesn’t mean that they truly feel any sort of remorse for their harmful actions nor does
it mean that they will keep their promise to stop hurting teens children. Letting them stay in the Church only means that your enabling them to rape more youths. Excommunicating a person
who hurts some else is understandable such as a pedophile or
a spouse-abuser. Excommunicating a person who is an adult
who acted on their sexual feelings with another consenting adult of the same-gender which harms no one is entirely unjustified and
the fictional Booble’s ‘standards’ on homosexuality are not ‘moral’. Homosexuality is not a ‘wicked’ practice. The fictional Booble’s ‘standards’ on homosexuality are wrong and immoral
and should be ridiculed, condemned, discarded and ignored.
There is nothing wrong with two consenting men or two consenting
women having a romantically and sexually active relationship
with each other, period!
Darren M,
Yes they are homophobic. If you come out as gay and are romantically
and sexually active with a consenting partner of the same-gender while
you are a member of the JW Church , they will wrongly excommunicate you and all your friends and family in the JW church are no longer allowed to speak to you outside of what they consider to be
‘necessary’ family matters which is wrong. They may not be violent and they may not be active in promoting hateful laws , but they are
definately homophobic as you said. Cathholics are homophobic and
not ‘less’. Cathoholics are not ‘less’ homophobic that are quite homophobic. They wrongly view homosexuality as a ‘sin’. But it
is an excommunicatable ‘offense’. Homosexuality is not a ‘sin’
which is what the Cathoholics should know. Homosexuality is not
an ‘offense ‘ at all. Homosexuality is okay and romantically and sexually active relationships between two women or two men are
acceptable and good. The Cathoholics, the Jebobah’s Witlesses
and the Mormonics are all wrong with their views on homosexuality.
The Cathoholics, Mormonics and Jebobah’s Witlesses are all wrong
about homosexuality.
Darren M,
Yes they are homophobic. If you come out as gay and are romantically
and sexually active with a consenting partner of the same-gender while
you are a member of the JW Church , they will wrongly excommunicate you and all your friends and family in the JW church are no longer allowed to speak to you outside of what they consider to be
‘necessary’ family matters which is wrong. They may not be violent and they may not be active in promoting hateful laws , but they are
definately homophobic as you said. Cathholics are homophobic and
not ‘less’. Cathoholics are not ‘less’ homophobic that are quite homophobic. They wrongly view homosexuality as a ‘sin’. But it
is an excommunicatable ‘offense’. Homosexuality is not a ‘sin’
which is what the Cathoholics should know. Homosexuality is not
an ‘offense ‘ at all. Homosexuality is okay and romantically and sexually active relationships between two women or two men are
acceptable and good. The Cathoholics, the Jebobah’s Witlesses
and the Mormonics are all wrong with their views on homosexuality.
The Cathoholics, Mormonics and Jebobah’s Witlesses are all wrong
about homosexuality.
Actually, gay members of Jehovah’s Witnesses do exist. I know several. Just as adult, unmarried heterosexual members choose to refrain from non-marital sexual relations, so must the gay member choose to refrain. The standard is the same. I believe it is difficult that there is no marriage option for the LGBT community as Jehovah’s Witnesses…but there is the option to NOT be a part of the religion.
Alexis Katt,
The Jebobah’s Witlesses are homophobic, let’s put it that way and
there is no logical or good reason why homosexuality is ‘not for them’.
Homosexuality is for some people. There’s no reason that homosexuality
is ‘not for them’ and religion is not an excuse. Homosexuality should be for them as in letting lgbt be themselves and not view them in a bigoted manner which is wrong.
tonys,
Opposition to marriage equality would be wrong for this church as a religious
organization as they are apolitical. I do not agree with their religious beliefs
of course, but they can neither be pro nor con on any subject. I’m glad that they will never intefere with marriage equality rights’ laws though. I disagree
with the JW’s on their seeing homosexuality as a ‘moral issue’ . They should condone homosexuality as long as it is outside their church though.
They will never advocate violence or political opposition to those who are
homosexual. By the way, tonys, people don’t ‘choose’ to be homosexual.
They are born that way and even if it was a ‘choice’ , it doesn’t hurt anyone
so people should still be allowed to be in romantically and sexually active
relationships with the same-gender even if it was a choice and still have
all the same equal rights as heterosexuals.
tonys,
You wouldn’t go so far as to say opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples but I would. The Jebobah’s Witlesses are politically neutral and do not vote which is true but that does not excuse their homophobic
bigotry; They will never interfere with marriage equality rights laws which is a good thing as same-sex couples will have the right to marry each other oner day. The Jebobah’s Witlesses wrongly ‘do not condone’ homosexuality on what they wrongfully see as a ‘moral issue’, and will most likely not advocate harmful violence or wrongful political opposition to those that never ‘chose’ to be homosexual as no gay person chose to be homosexual. I wouldn’t say ‘never’, they can change their beliefs as they have before. Gay people were born homosexuals. The Jebobah’s Witlesses should condone homosexuality and they are wrong to see it as a ‘moral issue’. Homosexuality is not a ‘moral issue’ at all . Homosexuality is perfectly moral.
tonys,
I would say a church that is noted for its ‘opposition to marriage equality’ , the author stated this and true such things are ‘not ‘ permitted in their religion.
Whether the JW’s ‘oppose’ marriage equality in general is kind of
irrelevant as they are an apolitical christian denomination. They might in church, but that’s different. I think two men or two women should be allowed to marry each other civily of course. I’m an atheist and do not
agree with the JW Christian church or any other personally. Hate the religion, not the religious person, that’s what I always say. They should
condone homosexuality as it is not a’ moral issue’. THe JW church should
condone homosexuality as it not a ‘moral issue’ and harms no one and
is between consenting adults.
I am impressed with the LGBT group to stand up for the freedoms of JWs and possibly set up a reward fund in the finding of the arsonist(s). I too, hope the investigators find the arsonist(s) as soon as possible. Hate crimes must meet justice.
The irony is that JWs will never ever stand up with the LGBT group in any case. Their policy is to disfellowship/shun any member who are gay, even toward their own family member. Even if any JWs leaves their organization and express their belief has changed then the former members are denounced as “apostates” and that such individuals are considered “mentally diseased.”
It is so ironic how JWs cry out for their own freedom but be so intolerant of other groups.
Sorry, but that is not true. J.W.’s will not disfellowship/shun any member who is homosexual. It is only those who practice homosexuality. The same is true with alcoholics. Alcoholics do not get disfellowshipped. Only those that practice getting drunk. It may be a technicality in your eyes, but an important clarification.
lared,
Sorry but that is true. The Jebobah’s Wiitlesses may excommunicate and shun any member who is a romantically and sexually repressed as self- hating homosexual which is abnormal, unnatural, unhealthy and wrong.
It is wrong to excommunicate ‘only those’ who righfully practice hmosexuality. I don’t believe the same is ‘true’ with alcoholics. If you knew anything about decency, you wouldn’t compare homosexuals who aren’t harming anyone with alcoholics! Homosexuality is not comparable
with alcoholism! Alcoholics choose to drink because they cannot deal with their problems. Homosexuals are born homosexual and have the right to practice their sexuality with another consenting same-sex partner
which harms no one.
You say only those that ‘practice’ getting drunk are excommunicated which is understandable to a degree but if they don’t show up drunk
to church, then why excommunicate them for wanting to ruin their own health? It is not a ‘technicality’ in my eyes but the homophobic bigotry of the JW church is wrong. It is not an ‘important clarification’. Those gay
people who practice homosexuality with another consenting adult of the same-gender is perfectly fine and harms no one. Grow up, lared. The
JW Church’s homophobic and gaysexophobic bigotry is wrong and is not
excusable at all.
All these inflammatory words are yours, Brandi, not theirs.
Interesting how you put a kernel of truth in with your half truths. No, we will not get involved with politics in any form. We object to homosexuality on the basis that the Bible condemns the practice. But note what 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says on the matter. “What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators….., nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men…… will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.”
The PRACTICE of that is condemned, but “that is what some of you WERE”. So this proves that we are not as the writer here yells and tries to convince everyone here we are bad people. Gayle McCurdy also seems not to understand the meaning of the word “neutrality”. It means others are free to do whatever they want. We will merely teach what Jehovah God has to say abouit matters through the Bible. We take no part either for or against mosdt anything someone else wants to do unless it affects us directly unfairly. We will not be marching in any parades for or against anything as others are free to do as they wish.
It needs to be stated what has been lost these days is taking personal responsibility for ones actions. This is how Jehovah has, is and will view things. So although everyone is free to do as they wish–just so long as they know there will be consequences to being for or against having Jehovah God’s viewpoint on matters. Literally a matter of life or death. We of Jehovah’s Witnesses will have no part in that either except we will be judged alongside the rest of humanity.
M C Green,
Nobody is putting a kernel of truth in their ‘half-truths’. You church may
not be involved in politics in any form and in some cases at least that
can be a good thing. You wrongly ‘object’ to homosexuality on the
‘basis’ that the fictional Booble wrongly ‘condemns’ the practice which by the way harms nobody! I don’t believe in the fictional Book of the 1st
Corinthianites which reads by the an ancient delusional christianite
author that do the christians in the Corinthianite church know that
such ‘unrighteous’ persons will ‘not inherit’ the fictional god’s fictional
‘kingdom’. The author tells the Cornthianite church members that they shouldn’t be ‘mislead’ that neither those having sex without being married, men kept for ‘unnatural’ purposes nor men
who lie with other men which doesn’t harm anyone will inherit the
fictional ‘kingdom’ of their false god. The author states that this is what
some of them ‘were’ but they have been ‘washed clean’ and have been
‘sanctified’ and have been declared ‘righteous’ in the name of the fictional
lord known as Cheesus Chrust and with the fictional spirit of their false
god. Quoting from a book of Saud-Abrabian fairytales doesn’t work, MC
Greene. Don’t capitalize the word ‘you’ , dude. Did you notice that this
passage does not condemn spouse and child abusers, pedophiles,
rapists, slave holders, homophobic and transphobic bigots, gaysexophobes, racists,
misogynists, xenophobes, sex-haters, school yard bullies or those
who are intolerant towards those who practice other religions or
those of no religion, MC? Men who lie with men are not ‘unrighteous’.
Men who lie with men would be more likely to inherit the kingdom of
this fictional god if he were truly loving and compassionate. It seems to
me the author of this immoral passages is the one who is ‘mislead’.
It woul not be misleading for men who lie with men to inherit the kingdom
of a god who is truly loving and moral. Men who lie with men will inherit
the kingdom of this god if he is truly the loving, compassionate, caring
and moral deity that other make him out to be if he exists. There is no
proof your god exists. The members of the Corinthianite church
in the fictional passage above dropped these ancient practices by
coming into the christianite religion and blindly believed to have
been ‘washed clean’ and have been ‘sanctified’ and are declared ‘righteous’ in the name of Cheesus and his daddy. I don’t
believe the Cornthianites were ‘sanctified’ , ‘washed clean and nor
do I think they were ‘righteous’ people. Maybe self-righteous fanatical
religious nutcases. The author was not told by the false booblical god to write this immoral passage nor any other. There is no proof this ‘kingdom’ exists. There is no tangible, conclusive, undeniabel or substanstial evidence that this god exists and even if he did that doesn’t mean he is good or moral and if he would punish men for lying with other men which
is a reponse to their inborn same-sex attraction which is are feelings and
an activity which harms no one , then this god is evil and not worthy of
worship.
The practice of that is wrongly ‘condemned’, but that is not what some
of them ‘were’. It is a response to who they are and a response that they have the right to act on that does not harm anyone. Don’t capatilize the
word ‘were’, dude. This does not ‘prove’ that the members of your church as the writer who did not ‘yell’ here and is not trying to ‘convince’ everyone here that the members of your church are not’ bad’ people. I don’t think most of you are ‘bad’ people , but I do think that these people
believe in some bad things. There’s a difference. Gayle McCurdy does seem to understand the meaning of the word ‘neutrality’. It means
that others are free to do whatever they want as long as they harm
nobody else. You will merely ‘teach’ what your false god has to ‘say’
about such ‘matters’ through the fictional Booble. You take no part either for or against most anything someone else wants to do unless it affects
the members of your church directly or unfairly as long as it does not do any harm, I would presume. It does neet to be stated that what has been
‘lost’ these days is taking personal responsibilitiy for one’s actions, I agree, but not for the ‘reasons’ that you have or think you have.
I don’t believe this is how your god has ‘viewed’ things. I don’t believe this ‘is’ how your god ‘views’ things. I don’t believe this is how your god
‘will’ view things. I don’t believe your god exists or ‘views’ anything, dude.
I believe what you ‘teach’ is wrong. I don’t believe your god has anything
to ‘say’ about any ‘matters’ through the unholy Booble. I believe most
of the ‘matters’ of ‘concern’ to your god are wrong. I believe the Booble
is nothing more than a fictional book of fairytales. You will not be
‘marching’ in any parades for or against anything as others are free to do as they wish as long as they don’t hurt anyone, I presume. I would also
like to say that there are other interpretations of the Booble, though
I think they are all wrong , even the nice, liberal and inclusive ones as
there is no ‘proof’ that any of the claims in this book are ‘true’ due to
the lack of conclusive, substantial, undeniable evidence. Even if they
were ‘true’ that doesn’t mean that they are ‘moral’ enough to be followed.
The book is not ‘true’ just because you quote a passage that reads all
of the words in the book are ‘true’. There is no ‘proof’ that a god ‘inspired’
the writing of this book and passages that claim in the same book that
a god ‘inspired’ every word in the book does not count as being ‘true’ or
‘proof’.
M C Greene,
You say that ‘although’ everyone is free to do as they wish, hopefully
as long as they don’t harm anyone , you add the extra and unecessary
baggage of ‘just so long’ as they’ know ‘there will be ‘consequences’ to being’ for or against’ having your god’s ‘viewpoint’ on ‘matters’. You have said it is ‘literally’ a matter of ‘life or death’. The members of the Jebobah’s Witlesses will have ‘no part’ in that either except you think that you and your fellow church members ‘will be judged’ alongside the ‘rest of humanity’.
I don’t believe there will be ‘consequences’ of being ‘for’
or ‘against’ having your god’s ‘viewpoint’ on ‘matters’. Nor is there any
‘truth’ or ‘proof’ to this claim. I don’t believe it is ‘literally’ a matter
of ‘life’ or ‘death’ and there is no ‘truth’ or ‘proof’ to this claim. It is merely a childish and empty threat that you cannot backup without
any tangible, conclusive, substanstiated , varifiable and undeniable
evidence that does not include a mostly fictional religious text that
has been rewritten and retranslated countless times, has been subjected to plagarism, is contradictory and remains so ambiguous that it is subject to almost any interpretation that you want it to read
I don’t believe the members of your church will have ‘no part’ in the
‘consequences’ and I don’t believe that you and the members of your
church will be ‘judged’ alongside the ‘rest of humanity’. I don’t believe
in the ‘consequences’ will ever occur of which you speak nor do I
believe the JW’s or the ‘rest of humanity’ will be ‘judged’ at all by
your fictional god. I don’t believe that those who have sex without being married nor men who lie with men , neither of which hurts anyone would not be able inherit the kingdom of this god if he were worthy
of worship and had true love and compassion. Not sure about men
being kept for ‘unnatural’ purposed whatever that means. I’m sure it
isn’t about slavery. I do believe that this god if he were truly good and
moral that men kept for ‘unnatural’ purpose would inherit the kingdom
of this god if this alleged ‘unnatural’ purpose doesn’t harm anyone, but
not if does cause long-term and severe harm. I believe if this god
was good, provided a true sense of justice, moral and compassionate
that unmarried couples and men who lie with men would inherit the
kingdom of this god. You should also know your Booble supports
slavery, the killing of disobedient kids , non-virgin brides, people who
follow non-abrahamic religions, prostitutes and those who make false
‘prophecies’ that don’t come true; forbids women who speak up in church who are also considered to be ‘unclean’ if they are on their periods or give birth to a daughter or she must marry her rapist or
be killed if she doesn’t scream loud enough for help; holding slaves
and beating them if they disobey you is permissible; the eating of shellfish and the wearing of mixed-fabrics is ‘forbidden’; you must
hate and abandon your loved ones in order to be a follower of Cheesus
and call non-Jewish women ‘dogs’ and refer to your mother outside of her name. If you don’t literally act on these ‘rules’ than you are a cherry-picking hypocritical bigot. Maybe you and all the other JW church members should stop acting on your religious beliefs as
they are offensive to the One and only True God Cliuosuahsophopialikiloiophis who will annhilate you if you don’t do
as he says.
Actually it is because of the many fights in the courts that LGBT is able to speak freely as they do. Everyone that becomes a JW knows about disfellowshipping and why and how it is applied. It is only those that speak out lies about the JW’s that are considered apostate. You had better get your facts straight before you comment.
MC, spoken like a true mind controlled JW. And you aren’t completely accurate in all your statements either. According to your beliefs if anyone dies before Armageddon, they will be resurrected and given the chance to live again. No judgement in that doctrine. And the Watchtower Society is the worst for not taking personal responsibility for ones actions. Consider the Candace Conti sexual abuse case. I’m glad to see a jury found them guilty and granted a large sum of money to be given to that girl. You are pushing a pack of lies sir and propaganda told by the Watchtower Sociey, if there is a hell I hope you all go there for the damage you’ve inflicted on all who have left that hypocritical, lying organization.
Stormy Flores,
You said MC, has spoken like a true mind controlled JW church member. And he isn’t completely accurate in all his statements either. According to his false beliefs if anyone dies before the fictional Apcaly[se, they will be fictionally ‘resurrected’
which I don’t believe in and given the chance to ‘live again’ which I don’t believe will happen. I don’t believe there is ‘no’ judgement in that false doctrine. And the Washtowel Church Society is the worst for not taking personal responsibility for ones actions.
Consider the Candace Conti sexual abuse case. You and I are both glad to see a jury found them guilty and granted a large sum of money to be given to that girl. MC is pushing a pack of lies sir
and propaganda told by the Watshtowel Society Church, if there is a hell which I don’t believe there is not, you hope they all go there for the damage they’ve inflicted on all who have left that
hypocritical, lying religious institution.
MC,
You are only partially correct that because of many ‘fights’ in the courts that lgbt people are able to speak freely as they do. The same court also
fights for your freedom of speech and religions too, dickweed. It’s true that everyone who becomes a member of the JW Church knows about it’s bizarre excommunication policies and ‘why’ and ‘how’ they are applied.
The ‘why’ and ‘how’ are not always good or agreeable is some cases which I am convinced includes homosexuality. I don’t agree with you that those who speak out ‘lies’ about the JW Church are considered ‘apostate’.
Just because alot of former members and non-members have either had
some negative experiences in the religion or have learned about it and neither group agrees with it doesn’t mean they are all bigoted. They just don’t agree with the beliefs and rules of your church and they have that right just as you have the right to believe what you want even though you have no ‘proof’ that any of it is ‘true’. I think it is you, MC that better get your facts straight before you comment.
The lgbt community was right to stand up for the JWs and set up a reward
for the arsonist and bring him/her to justice. Hate crimes must meet justice,
I agree. Yes , it is ironic and sad that the Jehovah’s Witnesses won’t stand
with the lgbt group in any case and yes they have to shun members who are
gay that were baptized into the church, unfortunately. That is their right.
No, I don’t agree or endorse the practice of shunning. But that’s how it is.
Yes, any member who leaves this church is shunned and are an ‘apostate’,
but so is a person who leaves the Seventh-Day Adventist church for the
JWs. I do think its wrong to refer to former members as being ‘mentally
diseased’ that is a bit immature to call someone just because they no longer
agree with the beliefs or practices espoused by a certain religious denomination. Yes, it is ironic and sad that the JWs cry out for their
own freedom, and are intolerant of other groups. Maybe one day that will
change who knows. If you don’t like the JWs don’t join their church. It’s as
simple as that.
Gayle McCurdy,
You are impressed with the LGBT group to stand up for the freedoms of The JW’s and possibly set up a reward fund in the finding of the arsonist(s). you too, hope the investigators find the arsonist(s) as soon as possible. Hate crimes must meet justice.
The irony is that thr JW’s will never ever stand up with the LGBT group in any case which is so wrong. Their policy is to excommunicate and shun any member who is gay even show these bigoted and hateful attitudes toward their own family members. Even if any member of the JW Church leaves this religious institution and express their belief has changed then the former members are wrongly denounced as “apostates” and that such individuals are wrongly considered “mentally diseased.”
It is so ironic and wrong how the JW’s cry out for their own freedom but be so intolerant of other groups and that is just bigoted and hateful.
Gayle McCurdy,
You are impressed with the LGBT group to stand up for the freedoms of The JW’s and possibly set up a reward fund in the finding of the arsonist(s). you too, hope the investigators find the arsonist(s) as soon as possible. Hate crimes must meet justice.
The irony is that thr JW’s will never ever stand up with the LGBT group in any case which is so wrong. Their policy is to excommunicate and shun any member who is gay even show these bigoted and hateful attitudes toward their own family members. Even if any member of the JW Church leaves this religious institution and express their belief has changed then the former members are wrongly denounced as “apostates” and that such individuals are wrongly considered “mentally diseased.”
It is so ironic and wrong how the JW’s cry out for their own freedom but be so intolerant of other groups and that is just bigoted and hateful
Gayle McCurdy,
You are impressed with the LGBT group to stand up for the freedoms of The JW’s and possibly set up a reward fund in the finding of the arsonist(s). you too, hope the investigators find the arsonist(s) as soon as possible. Hate crimes must meet justice.
The irony is that thr JW’s will never ever stand up with the LGBT group in any case which is so wrong. Their policy is to excommunicate and shun any member who is gay even show these bigoted and hateful attitudes toward their own family members. Even if any member of the JW Church leaves this religious institution and express their belief has changed then the former members are wrongly denounced as “apostates” and that such individuals are wrongly considered “mentally diseased.”
It is so ironic and wrong how the JW’s cry out for their own freedom but be so intolerant of other groups and that is just bigoted and hateful.
Can you think of no better place to send five thousand dollars? What about a shelter for battered women who run from their abusive Jehovah’s Witness husbands? Or, you could donate money to the silentlambs.org… an organization for all the sexually abused children that the Jehovah’s Witnesses routinely cover up.
Or, hey, you could buy some homophobic, mysoginistic cult members some new curtains in some misguided attempt to show that you’re the bigger person. Curtains for homophobes are nice, too. Later tonight, I’m buying some socks for the KKK.
Personally, I’d like to see your money be used to raise awareness about how Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. You appear to have co-opted the incident to grab headlines for your own organization without doing much research into what may have drove a person to commit this type of crime.
p.s. Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t call their place of worship a church. They don’t want to be associated with “pagan” churches, that’s why they call their buildings “Kingdom Halls.”
sincerely,
– Kyria Abrahams
author of I’m Perfect, You’re Doomed – Tales From A Jehovah’s Witness Upbringing
Ok I feel strangely compelled to thank the LBGT community to support the investigation of the aron investigation as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. not strange because it is the LBGT, but because the comments. I’m a JW. It is true there are no open LBGT JWS (that seems like a lot of acronyms). As some one who is a JW and known a number of gay JW, as well as being related to a few non JW very active members in the LGBT community I applaud the action. I have dinner several times a year with my LGBT activist family and we discuss politics and social issues amicably. Yes JW are never going to allow gay marriage in a Kingdom Hall. On the other side they will never enter an election booth to fight for right wing politics. I’m disappointed with Kyria, but then again if you portray yourself as an author but are a one trick pony, i understand beating that horse to death.
Bill,
You feel ‘strangely compelled’ to thank the lgbt community to support the
investigation of the arsoning of one of your churches. It’s not strange because it is lgbt , but because of the comments. Some people don’t
like your religion such as I and that’s my opinion. You have no known a number of gay JWs and I don’t think that ‘sounds like a lot of acronyms’.
You are related to a few non-JW who are bery active members in the JW community and that’s cool. You applaud their actions to help rebuild the
church and that’s nice of you. You have dinner with your lgbt rights activist
family members several times a year and talk about politics and social issues. Unfortunately, the JWs do not allow gay marriages in their churches. I would say they would ‘never’ allow gay marriage in their churches unless the lgbt community build their own JW churches which
they could do as we do have freedom of religion in this country. It would
be nice if the JWs did marry same-sex couples in their churches, but they
don’t have to of course if it bothers them. You may never enter an election-booth to fight for right-wing politics which is a little revealing about
what party you might vote for if your religion allowed you to. I disagree with your comment about Kyria who does portray herself as an author,
who in your eyes is ‘one tricky pony, you understand beating that horse to death’ which is an unecessary remark to make on your part and very rude. Even if you know lgbt people and have lgbt rights activists for relatives that doesn’t mean that your not a homophobe though. Just saying.
Bill, wish I knew you in the real world. I believe you have shown a distinguished approach to this hotbed!
Way to work in an ad for your crappy book. Not opportunistic or self-centered at all.
Pointing out who she is is totally topical and relevant. Self-centered would be if she didn’t care who else suffered and never wrote a comment at all.
Cheyenne,
Yes, Kyria pointing out who she is is topical and relevant and she would
be self-centered if she didn’t care who else suffered because of this fundamentalist religion and never wrote a comment at all.
marcus15,
I don’t think its a ‘way to work’ in an ad for her ‘crappy book’ that you probably never read unless you are a JW which you would be forbidden to read.
Yes , it is opportunistic but not self-centered.
Agreed. As another person who escaped this violent, cultish religion, I don’t think money should be used to help them. Arson is awful, but coming forward to hand money to help a JW cause is helping a religion that portrays itself as upstanding by hiding the spousal abuse, child molestation, oppression of LGBT people, psychological torture, and terror it keeps its members in. The level of control is mind-blowing, and is used to keep people fearfully in line. The overall goal of this group’s teachings is that you must devote all of your time, energy, and money to them (they are against education and careers) as you wait for an angry, violent God to kill everyone except JWs. Their love to publish depictions of the bloodbath of Armageddon.
Even after I left this cult, I was still indoctrinated by them. It was interestingly, only after reading I’m Perfect, You’re Doomed that I was able to process the absurdities of my upbringing and begin a long deprogramming journey.
I know it seems like the “nice” thing to do, stepping forward to help a church, and that does sound like a good citizen behavior on the surface, but please research these people (perhaps jwfacts.org who I am not affiliated with but found helpful) and realize what you’re supporting.
Very well said. I applaud your comments.
StaggerOn,
Yes it was very well said. I applaud Cheyenne’s comments too.
boy are you bitter or what?
Naz,
Some people don’t agree with your religion and that is okay. Get over it.
Naz,
I think your the one who is bitter. Like I said, not everyone agrees with your religion and if you’re gonna act all pissy on a website your not even supposed to be on in the first place than don’t go on websites that are sure to have people who don’t agree with your religion. It’s that simple. Why don’t you go hang out on your church’s main website?
Cheyenne,
You escaped this violent and cultish religion and don’t think they should
use money to help them. A bit upset aren’t you. You have reason to be.
Handing money to the JW cause of repairing their church is right, but it isn’t going to help a religion that portrays itself
to be ‘upstanding’ that hides spousal abuse, child molestation and oppression of lgbt people and the psychological torture and terror it
keeps it’s members in of which it does do, but that’s not what lgbt
persons were giving them money for. If you belong to them than you
must give them all your time, money and attention and energy. That’s
part of any religion. They do not like ‘higher education’ or careers due
to the fact that they think the world is going to ‘end’ at any moment and
99% of the planet will be annihilated by their god and they live on an
earthly paradise with 144,000 of their members becoming ‘heavenly’
members of the ruling class of their god. Yes,it’s ridiculous and a bit
too fanatasical to me, but no more
ridiculous than the Pentecostals who think their talking a ‘holy’ language.
You are recovering from the indoctrination and are able to deprogram yourself from the absurdities of your upbringing which is good.
I have researched these people and no I think their nuts, confused
and do display some bigoted and hateful tendencies but than again
so do many other religions and that’s why I would never join them.
Kyria Adams,
You wrote a very humorous account of your experiences in a fundamentalist christian denomination which I enjoyed very much. Yes, the JWs do cover-up
many pedophile cases which is immoral to me. Yes, you could by homophobic
and misogynistic cult members new curtains to show them you are the bigger
person. Yes curtains for homophobes are nice, too. Yes, I think the
JWs have some cult-like attributes. It was never learned who burned
their church, but that person was wrong even if they were a former member or not. You can disagree with their denomination as being false, but you don’t
need to destroy their property. I think the JWs are just as false as every other
christian denomination and that’s why I would never be a member. They are
false to me. This is a strong disagreement with their religion, yes, but not
an attack on their character. Unless they deserve it of course.
Kyria, I call call their places of worship a church if I want to. They are
just as pagan to me as any other christian church, that’s just how I see
things. Kingdom Hall or not it is still a church to me. A kingdom hall is
still a church, it’s just a different name. Ya know what they say: If it looks like
a skunk and smells like skunk then it must be a skunk.
The phrase “a church noted for its opposition to marriage equality for same-sex couples.” should have been tweaked a bit. While we believe the Bible’s view against same-sex marriage, we do not actively oppose in any way the practice except through the preaching of the Bible’s message. Since we don’t vote, buy bill-board space or appear on TV or radio programs our opposition is strictly religious in nature. We hate the sin not the sinner. I appreciate your coverage of this hate crime. I find it fascinating that Nicole Murray Ramirez has contributed money toward a reward. Thank you Ms. Ramirez.
Wow, that sure is an easy way out – “we condemn the sin, not the sinner”. You say you do not actively oppose the homosexual practice? So tell me this – your teachings clearly claims that 99% of the earth’s population will soon (well, it has been soon for about a hundred years now) be extinguished, and many of those will be for one reason only – they are homosexual and practice their love with a loved one. Is that not opposing homosexual practice? The other 90% of those who will be killed by your loving god may simply have deserved this fate by being peaceful buddhists, peaceful agnostics looking to find answers and doing their best to save the earth, abused young people who haven’t found their footing in life yet. The list goes on and on. Not to mention the complete cutting of family ties when one member decides your teachings is not for them.
Camilla,
Yes, I do think the ‘easy way’ out of saying they ‘condemn the sin, not
the sinner’ is a load of bullshit. That’s their right. Do I agree with it? Hell, no.
But that’s just how it is. No they do not actively oppose homosexual practice
in political ways at least. Their beliefs are that most of the earth’s population
will be annihilated and many of these are supposed to be for being only
a homosexual who practices their love with their same-sex partner which
is fucked up reason for a deity to kill someone but since I don’t believe
that will ever happen , I have no reason to worry.
robin morgan,
Your church is technically ‘opposed’ to marriage equality though you are not
supposed to take sides. You believe your big book of desert fairytales
view is ‘against’ same-sex marriage. That’s your opinion. No I don’t agree
personally. The bible’s ‘view’ on same-sex marriage is wrong in my eyes.
You do ‘not’ oppose the practive actively in any way except through the
‘preaching’ of the bible’s ‘message’ which is wrong to me. The bible’s
‘message’ is wrong to me. You don’t vote or buy billboard space or
appear on tv or radio programs your ‘opposition’ which is wrong to me
is indeed strictly religious in nature. I think your opposition is wrong personally, even if it is ‘religious in nature’. You ‘hate the sin, not the sinner’,
and again, this is a phrase that I personally disagree with. I don’t believe in ‘sin’ nor do I think anyone
is a ‘sinner’. What two men or two women do with each other is a private
and personal matter and is not yours, mine, the JW church’s or anyone
else’s business. The coverage of this hate crime was good and you are
‘fascinated’ that Nicole Murray Ramirez has contributed money with a reward and that is nice of you.
Shhhh…Nobody tell Robin Morgan that Nicole Murray Ramirez is a man, not a “Ms.”
Robin sure does gloss over how JWs reject and shun homosexual members, including children/teens.
Anonymous Mouse,
Robin didn’t gloss over how the JWs shun and reject homosexual member
including children and teens. Rejecting and shunning homosexual members
who are children and teens for being who they are is wrong and I don’t
condone or endorse it. That is the JWs exercising an aspect of their
religious freedom. Sure its fucked up. Luckily those children and teens
can leave it when their older.
This is a gay ex JW here, it would be ironic if the person who set the fire, was a disgruntled LGBT jw’-possibly for the way he/she was treated by the jw’s when they found out he was not hetero…. and of course setting the fire would be wrong to do, I think the money should go to homeless people thrown out of their homes (especially LGBT youth that get thrown out of they homes of jw parents all the time, this I can document,) or perhaps a no kill animal shelter, but I do think their intentions are good, just a bit more info would help them see the light. My feeling is that there is more need for the young gay person who is discovering that he/she is not like others to be “loved and accepted unconditionally” so that they do not feel suicide is the only answer or be throw out of their homes and cut off from family/friends. This is something that jw’s do all the time. It is very difficult for them to comprehend that “thier” child could be anything but straight. If I could choose what to do with the money I would have the jw’s attend classes on understanding their gay son or daughter and teach them how to love someone that is different. Besides they have insurance and I’m sure it covers things like this.
Bobby,
Hey, buddy. You are a gay ex-JW who thinks it would not be suprising
if the perpetrator of the arson was a disgruntled lgbt JW due to negative
treatment from the church when they found out he was not a heterosexual and as you said setting a fire would be the wrong thing to do. The money could have gone to homeless and maybe it should of but what has been done has been done. Yes, lgbt youth to get thrown out of their homes by their JW parents all the time which is an hateful thing to do and you are a witness of this fact. Their intentions are good and more info would help the see the light. I agree that there is more need for a young gay person who
is discovering that he or she is ‘not like others’ to be loved and accepted
unconditionally as long as they are not harming anyone else and they should not feel suicide is the ‘only answer’ or that being thrown out of their
own homes and cut off from their family and friends and unfortunately the
JWs do this all the time and its wrong. It is difficult for them to comprehend
that their child could be ‘anything but straight’ which is an absurd thing to
assume. I agree with your choice of using the money to have the JWs attend classes on understanding their gay son or lesbian daughter and to
teach them how to love someone that is ‘different’. That would be wonderful
and it a capital suggestion. Yes I’m sure their leaders have insurance to cover incidents like this as well.
In our publications, we freely admit that many of our members do at times feel attracted to people of the same gender. However, in the same way that heterosexual unmarried members refrain from fornication, these persons refrain from homosexual acts. They are welcome full members of the congregation.
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not hate homosexuals and do not take political stances on gay marraige.
JW,
In your publications you do admit freely that many of your members do at times
feel attracted to people of the same-gender at that is okay. I don’t agree that those persons should ‘refrain’ from homosexual acts. I think lgbt JWs should
have the right to engage in homosexual acts with another consenting adult
of the same-gender as they are not hurting anyone. I don’t agree that unmarried heterosexual couples shoud
refrain from what you call ‘fornication’. I think unmarried heterosexual
couples have the right to have sex with each other as they are consenting
adults and not hurting anyone. Romantic and sexual repression is not
healthy nor is it normal, natural or moral. It’s not a ‘realistic’ option for anyone
is my eyes whether you are straight or lgbt. They are ‘welcome’ to be
full members of the congregation if they commit to the absurd idea
of living a life of loneliness until death which I disagree with and strongly
would encourage lgbt members of the JWs to leave in that case. The
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not hate homosexuals you say. I think some of
you do. You don’t take political stances on gay marriage that’s true and
you shouldn’t.
This is like the NAACP donating to a KKK community center because someone hated the KKK and decided to burn a building down.
JWs will sugar coat their beliefs to the public, but there are many JWs, especially recent converts, who have no idea how awful the organization has treated homosexuals who were baptized too young, or came out while a JW.
And, the shame for JWs who are gay and have to get married and suppress who they really are or lose custody of children, etc.
Their only mission is to make things seem light-hearted to gain converts, then once a person is baptized, it’s either play ball or be ready for a bumpy ride.
Tony D.,
JWs do surgarcoat their beliefs to the public which is wrong and there are many JWs who are recent converts who have no idea how awful the church
has treated homosexuals who might have been baptized too young or came out as lgbt while still a JW. That is unfortunate and I hope any soon-to-be member who is not homophobic will learn of their bigoted views and
decide not to join. It is a shame that JWs who are gay have to get
‘married’ to a heterosexual whom they are not attracted to and have to
supress who they really are or lose custody of the children they may have
and other such things. They should not get in a mixed-orientation ‘marriage’
which is nothing more than a sham. They should resign their membership
from the JW church and get in a romantically and sexually active relationship with another person of the same-gender. That is the better
option for LGBT JWs. The only mission of the JW church is to gain
converts in some cases they do make light-hearted views of their religion
which is wrong. Once the person is baptized they either have to play
ball or be ready for a bumpy ride. They can leave too which they should
do if they don’t agree with their views.
While I applaud your open mindedness and commitment to justice,I must say that your $5,000 would be better spent on the LGBT jw youngsters who are summarily kicked out of their parents’ homes and shunned by family and friends for simply being honest about who they are. There certainly are plenty of them out there who have no support other than ex-jw online communities.
Jamie Bowers,
Totally. Yes that money could have been spent on lgbt JW youngsters
who are kicked out of their parents’ houses and shunned by family and friends
for simply being honest for who they are. They are plenty of them out there who have no support other than ex-jw online communities and yes they do
need love and support and maybe the lgbt community can to an outreach
to ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered.
I applaud anyone who will stand for religious freedom and to help victims of hate crimes. The article does indicate a lack of knowledge of the Jehovah’s Witnesses cult. They don’t vote or serve on a jury. They would never stand up for a church victimized by an arsonist. They would never contribute money for any charity such as the Red Cross or Salvation Army. Indeed, they consider doing so a great sin which would endanger a JW to be called into a “judical hearing,” and possibly disfellowshiped, shunned, and consigned to eternal destruction. My book, Rescuing Slaves of the Watchtower has details.
Joe B. Hewitt,
Yes , standing up for religious freedom and helping victims of a hate crime
is an admirable act of courage. Yes the article may have a lack of knowledge
of the JW church. It was still nice of them to help this church. No they shouldn’t agree with the homophobic views of the church in any circumstance.
But, they should help those in times of crisis as that is the moral thing to do.
The JWs dont’ vote, go to war and serve on a jury and that is their right.
I don’t agree with their ‘reasons’ even if they are religiously-based. But they
have a right not to do that stuff. They would never tand up for a church
from another Christian denomination that had been victimized by an arsonist
which is unfortunate. They wouldn’t give money to charities such as the
Red Cross or the ‘Salvation’ Army. They would consider that a ‘great sin’.
and would be lectured by their leaders and possibly excommunicated from
the church, shunned and be consigned to ‘eternal destruction’. I wouldn’t
give money to the bigoted Salvation Army , but I would to the Red Cross.
I don’t agree with their reasons for not donating to charities.
Yes, I know they think their ‘better’ than every other christian denomination. But what christian denomination doesn’t think their better than the others.
They think their Yahweh’s ‘chosen people’ and that he was displeased with
the Jews for being ‘disobedient’ and such. The Mormons believe the
same thing. Both of these christian denominations believe they have become the ‘new Jews’ which is a load of bullcrap to me. Jews worship the same deity
that they do and so do followers of Islam and they all think they’re ‘right’
and everyone else is ‘wrong because they believe that they are the
‘one and only true religion’ which is what most religions think. I’m an
atheistic Jew. I think the Jehovah’s Witnesses , the Mormons, all of the religious denominations of Judaism, Muslims and every other organized
religion that exists are all false. ‘Jehovah’ is just as much of a false god
as any other in my book. Even though his name is actually Yahweh.
I don’t believe in Yahweh at all. I don’t believe in ‘hell’ or ‘eternal destruction’
or the ‘terrestrial kingdom’ which is one of the three kingdoms of ‘glory’
in Mormon theology. All religions are false to me, no matter how ‘true’
they think they are to their followers. I will check out your book.
That money could have been used so much more wisely. Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that homosexuals will be murdered by God at Armageddon. In fact Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that everyone who isn’t a member of their religion will be murdered by their loving God at Armageddon. Any homosexual child born into the religion is expelled and shunned by all members including family. Family are forbidden to even speak to the expelled person or else they will be expelled as well. The leaders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (The Governing Body) seek to isolate the followers from outsiders so that if anyone leaves the group they are completely cut off from their entire social support group. There is simply no honorable way to leave the group. Anyone who escapes the group is labeled as being wicked, rebellious, or leaving so that they can “sin”. I repeat there is no way to honorably escape the religion. I’ve seen countless families (including my own) destroyed because of the extreme teachings of this “religion”.
So while I admire Mr Murray’s efforts, I feel that they could have been directed towards a more noble and worthy cause. Anyone interested in what the Jehovah’s Witnesses actually teach should also visit jwfacts.com. They will not be honest about their beliefs if asked difficult questions when there at your door attempting to recruit you into their apocalyptic high control religion.
The money could have been used much more wisely, I agree. It is digusting
the JWs believe that sexually active homosexuals will be ‘murdered’ by their
deity at ‘Armageddon’. I don’t believe in ‘Armageddon’ and don’t believe in
will ever happen, at least the Jewish or christian or any other religious ‘version’ of it. They do believe everyone who is not a member of their denomination of Christianity will me murdered by their ‘loving’ god during the ‘end-of-the-world’ war. Any homosexual child unfortunate
enough to be born into the religion is expelled and shunned by all members
worldwide in their church which includes family members if the child
decides to righfully live life as an authentic lgbt person. I am aware the
leaders of the church forbid their members from outsiders that are
not prone to converting into the religion and that the excommunicated
or resigned membership person is cut off from their social support
group and is called ‘wicked’,’rebellious’, or decided to leave so they
can ‘sin’ and that is wrong. No one should be called names in magazines
just for choosing to voluntarily leave a religion they think is false and cannot
agree with or have been excommunicated for doing something the religion
deems as being ‘dishonorable’. Yes, there is no ‘honorable’ way to leave
the religion. But is there a way to leave any religion in an ‘honorable’ way?
Not that I have ever seen. There could have been a more noble and noteworthy cause to donate the money to of course.
It’s true there have been families that have been destroyed over the extreme beliefs of this religion which includes your own. The adherents
of this particularly fundamentalist denomination of christianity believe
they are doing what they think is ‘right’ as told to them by their leaders
as based on their personal interpretation of their religious text which they
think came from their god. No, I don’t in any way agree with , endorse nor would I promote the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses or any other religion whether fundamentalist or not at all. I don’t believe in their god
whom I consider to be ictional. I look at their religious text as being nothing more than a book of desert fairytales. I believe their beliefs are wrong personally and don’t think they have any ‘legitimacy’ and have no basis
in reality , but in wishful thinking. They can blindly believe in whatever delusion they choose but I don’t have to be a member or applaud them for it. JWFacts.com is a could resource and they are not honest 100% about
all of their beliefs due to evolving doctrinal changes and being asked difficult questions does stumble them when they are at your door attemptig
to recruit you into their apocalyptic and high-control christian denomination. True , but you don’t have to join it. You have the right to disagree with the
religion. Good thing, we have freedom of choosing to reject beliefs
that we consider to be nuts, huh?
Jehovah’s witnesses follow strictly Bible principles.
We have a right to do so. Jesus Christ our Commander and Chief followed strictly those same principles. If one of Jehovah’s Witnesses PRACTICES a way of life in opposition to Bible principles he or she will be dis fellow shipped. First Century Christians did the SAME THING.
It simply means we will not associate with that person nothing more. We have a right to do so. Its called freedom to decide who you want to associate with.
If Jesus had lived today, Jehovah’s Witnesses would have expelled him. That’s how much you follow Jesus. He would NEVER do what you do today with your shunning of family members. Jesus would have gone in to the Kingdom’s Hall and pushed the tables over, just as he did with the farisées in the Synagogue. Please, do not claim you are any followers of Jesus, you are so far away from his teachings of love.
Camilla,
If Cheesus even existed and had lived today, the Jebobah’s Witlesses would have expelled him if he was liberal. That’s how much they follow Cheesus. You think he would never do what they do today with the shunning of family members. Cheesus would have gone into the JW Church and pushed the tables over just as he did with the fictional
Phariseeites in the Judaicist Synogogueite in the story. Please do not
claim they are followers of Cheesus as they are so far away from his fictional ‘teachings’ of ‘love’. I don’t believe Cheesus existed or that
the supposed ‘teachings’ of him are false and not of ‘love’. Sorry, but I
do understand where you are coming from.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses may ‘strictly’ follow their interpretation of biblical
‘principles’. Though, It is a bit odd they don’t burn prostitutes, stone non-virgin
brides and disobedient kids to death or execute those who make false ‘prophecies’ that do not come true as the JWs have done, call non-Jewish
woman ‘dogs’ or come up with some punishment for those who eat shellfish,
wear mixed-fabrics or plant two different seeds in the same section of soil; consider women on their periods or those who give birth to a daughter
as being ‘unclean’; punish women for talking in church; sell their children
into slavery as the bible does support slavery and allows you to punish
those slaves if they disobey you, their master and they must hate their loved ones in order to be Jesus’ disciples. I’m not arguing theology with you. Just saying. The Jebobah’s Witlesses are a christian denomination
who believe that their religious text is ‘inerrant’ and ‘infallible’, but, yet they
cherry-pick what passages to act on literally and which ones to take metaphorically and make up rather pathetic excuses for their cherry-picking.
You have a right to act on your beliefs provided it doesn’t harm anyone else.
If a member practices a way of life that is in ‘opposition’ to the ‘principles’
of your desert fairytales’ book than he or she is excommunicated even
if their practice does not do any harm, that is fucked up. You claim that
1sr century christians did the same thing. How the hell would you know?
You weren’t alive 3000 years ago. You may think you know from passages
in your fairytale book , but not all christians believed in the same interpretations
of things you know. Excommunicating people for things that harm no one
is your right even though it is absurd. You decide to not talk to that person
and nothing more. You have a right to do so, but it doesn’t make your shunning them an acceptable pratice either. You have the freedom to
decide who you want to talk to , but your decision not to talk them is
not always ‘right’.
Dave,
I don’t believe Cheesus Chrust existed nor do i believe he is your ‘commander’
or your ‘chief’ and nor do I believe he ‘strictly’ followed the same ‘principles’ which I think are immoral. If a member of the Jebobah’s Witlesses practice
a way of life that is in ‘opposition’ to the immoral Booblical ‘principles’ then
he and she is excommunicated and just for practicing something that is consenusal, normal, natural, healthy and something that does not harm anyone else that is only part of a small minority group. Even if 1st century
christianites did the same thing that doesn’t make it right or excusable.
Don’t captialize words like ‘same’. ‘thing’ and ‘practices’.
Are Jehovah’s Witnesses taught to hate? Let us find out. The following quotations come straight from Jehovah’s Witnesses publications.
Awake 1997 Dec 8
“Should Christians Hate Homosexuals?
The Bible admonishes: O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad. (Psalm 97:10) Hence, Christians are expected to hate every practice that violates Jehovahs laws. Some people may even react with stronger feelings of aversion or disgust toward homosexuality than toward other types of immorality, viewing homosexuality as an unnatural sexual perversion.”
Awake 1989 July 8
“Since sexual immorality is based largely on self-gratification, it often leads to more debased acts. And fallen human nature being what it is, once an act becomes commonplace, its excitement tends to wane. Thus, some homosexuals have gone on to sadomasochism and other vile practices . One Bible commentary says that the effect of such base and unnatural passions … tended to debase the mind; to sink man below the level of the brute; to destroy the sensibility. A Bible scholar grouped homosexuality with crimes, which were utterly inconsistent with reason, nature, and their own and each others welfare.”
Watchtower 1979 Mar 15
“Some customs involve practices so gross that they are detestable to Jehovah, and, hence, to his people. Among such practices are sodomy, bestiality, homosexuality, incest and other forms of sexual immorality… Thus we see Jehovahs viewpoint of such vile practices. But what about today? Are these practices common in your country? What is the situation in your own neighborhood? Is it not true that some nations are even changing their laws so that homosexuality no longer is punishable by law and homosexuals are looked on as respectable in the community? Just as in the days of the ancient Israelites and the early Christian congregation, such practices are repulsive to all those who want to become holy in all their conduct.”
Watchtower 1976 Feb 15
“In recent years, homosexuality has swept the world. These homosexuals claim that they are ‘bringing it out of the closet’ and they brag by saying, ‘We are proud to be such.’ It was apparent that this erosion of moral standards could pose a danger or threat for God’s holy people, so the congregations were alerted and wrongdoers were cleaned out. Likewise, unclean practices, such as masturbation, which can be a steppingstone to homosexuality, have been dealt with in a serious, yet understanding, way, to help individuals keep clean and pure in Jehovah’s eyes.”
Your Youth – Getting the Best out of It (1976)
“In fact, masturbation can lead into homosexuality. In such instances the person, not satisfied with his lonely sexual activity, seeks a partner for mutual sex play. This happens much more frequently than you may realize. Contrary to what many persons think, homosexuals are not born that way, but their homosexual behavior is learned. And often a person gets started when very young by playing with another’s sexual parts, and then engaging in homosexual acts.”
Watchtower 1974 July 15
“THE GODLY QUALITY OF HATE
You have seen the benefit of godly love, but do you know how to hate? The Bible psalmist did, and said: “O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.” Also, he said: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” These very strong words are an expression of godly hate, and you too must have this quality to be pleasing to God.”
Watchtower 1961 July 15
“When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what
is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked.”
Watchtower 1952 Oct 1
“We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest…What do you do with anything loathsome or repugnant that you detest and abhor? The answer is simple. You get away from it or remove it from your presence.”
you sure study a lot. shame you have an agenda though. hating a practice doesn’t mean hating the person.
Naz,
She probably studies alot. She doesn’t have an ‘agenda’ and it’s
not a shame. Hating a non-harmful practice between consenting adults does mean hating the person for responding to a part of themselves for who they are for how they were born. There’s no reason to hate a practice that you are not forced to participate which does not harm you in any way. Two men or two women have every right to be in a romantically and a sexually active relationship with each other.
Janet,
Are the Jebobah’s Witlesses taught to hate? Yes.
One edition of one of their two magazine asks should christians hate
homosexuals?
They claim their booble admonishes that the lovers of their god should, ‘hate’ what is considered to be ‘ bad’. So, christians are expected to ‘hate’ every practice that violates their god’s ‘laws’. It’s stupid to hate something that causes no harm. Some people may even react with stronger feelings of weird ‘aversion’ or irrational ‘disgust’ toward homosexuality than toward other types of things they consider to be ‘immoral’ and they view homosexuality as an ‘unnatural’ sexual ‘perversion’ which is weird. Homosexuality is quite natural
and is not a sexual ‘perversion’ as it harms no one and is between
consenting adults.
“I don think sexual ‘immorality’ is based largely on ‘self-gratification’ as
all sex is self-gratifying whether procreational or nor, and I don’t agree that it often leads to more ‘debased acts’. I don’t believe in the concept of
‘fallen’ human nature, once an act becomes commonplace, its excitement does not always tend to’ wane’ if it hurts no one. No homosexuals that I know have gone on to’ sadomasochism ‘and other ‘vile practices’ that hurt anyone unlike some religious practices of debauchery. . One booble commentary bizarrely views the effect of such’ base’ and ‘unnatural’ passions … tended to ‘debase the mind’ or sink man below the ‘level of the brute’ or to destroy the ‘sensibility’. Homosexuality is not a ‘base ‘ or
‘unnatural’ passion nor does it ‘debase the mind’ and does not sink man
below the ‘level of the brute’ as homosexuality harms no one. The booble scholar wrongly grouped homosexuality with ‘crimes’, which they said utterly ‘inconsistent’ with ‘reason’, ‘nature,’ and their own and each others ‘welfare’. Homosexuality is not a ‘crime and is perfectly consistent
with nature, reason and does not harm their welfare or the welfare of others.
Some customs involve practices thought to be so ‘gross ‘that they are detestable to the biblical god and its followers . So, the followers of the
biblical god find a sexual relationship that doesn’t hurt them to be ‘gross’
and claim their fictional god is also disgusted by it just because they are
by justifying it with the same book that endorses slavery? What the fuck! Among such practices were ‘sodomy’, bestiality,’ homosexuality’, incest and other forms of sexual ‘immoralit’y… They claim to see their god’s viewpoint of such ‘vile’ practices. Anal sex and homosexuality are not forms of sexual ‘immorality’. So they personally use the booble to justify their dislike
of homosexuality and anal sex and claim their deity also ‘hates’ these things
too based on their religious text which justifies killing bratty kids? Are you
shitting me But what about today? Are these practices common in all countries? Homosexuality and anal sex, maybe. But pedophilia,
beastiality, incest and necrophilia are consindered crimes in most countries as they are wrong and they hurt people. What is the situation in your my neighborhood? Why does it matter? Homosexuals in my neighborhood are
not hurting anyone. Is it true that some nations are even changing their laws so that homosexuality no longer is punishable by law and homosexuals are looked on as respectable in the community? Yes and a
good thing too. Just as in the days of the ancient jews and the early Christian denominations, such practices are wrongly seen as ‘repulsive’ to all those who wish they could become ‘holy’ in all their ‘conduct’. The ancient jews and christians were wrong for seeing homosexuality as ‘repulsive’ as it is not something they had to engage in and it never
did anything to hurt them.
In recent years, homosexuality has not ‘swept the world’ people are just
being honest about themselves. The homosexuals who claim that they are finally bringing it out of the closet and they aren’t ‘bragging’ at all just by saying, They are proud to be such and they should be proud. It is not ‘apparent’ to everyone except for fundamentalist religious fanatics that this alleged ‘erosion of moral standards’ could pose a
‘danger’ or’ threat’ for the abrahamic god’s supposed ‘holy’ followers so the congregations were
‘alerted’ by their leaders and ‘wrongdoers ‘were ‘cleaned out’. Other such ‘unclean’ practices such as ‘masturbation’ which religious zealots consider can be a
‘steppingstone’ to homosexuality which is absurd and the ‘wrongdoers’ have been dealt with in a serious, yet non- understanding way, to ‘help’ individuals keep ‘clean’ and ‘pure’ in their god’s eyes.
In a book directed to JW youth:
They believe that masturbation can ‘lead into homosexuality’ which
is plain ridiculous. They claim such instances the person that is not satisfied with his lonely sexual activity seeks a partner for mutual sex play which by the way, harms nobody. This happens much more frequently than people may realize which is true and that is okay. Contrary to what bigoted persons think, homosexuals are born that way and their homosexual behavior is not ‘ learned’ , it is in fact a response to their sexual feelings
that they have everyright to act on provided it is consensual and they do not
harm anyone else in the process. And often a person realizes they are gay when very young but not by playing with ‘someone else’s sexual parts’, and then engaging in homosexual acts which also harms no one as it
is just expressing your sexuality but perhaps you should wait until you
are older.
The religious claim there is a ‘godly’ quality of ‘hate’. The religious zealots claim to have seen the benefit of what they conclude is ‘ godly love’ but do they know how to ‘hate’? Yes, they do. The Booblical who wrote the psalms supposedly did, and wrote: The lovers of Yahweh should ‘hate’ what they consider to be ‘bad.’ The author wrote: Does he not hate those who he claims are ‘intensely hating’ his god and does he not feel a loathing for those who are thought to be ‘revolting against’ his god and with a complete hatred does he hate them. They have become to him ‘ real enemies.’ These very strong words are not an expression of ‘godly hate’ for there is
no such thingand you too must not have this quality to be pleasing to a such a god as there is no proof such a god exists or ‘ hates’ anything.
These JW church claims that when a person persists in a way of ‘badness’ after ‘ knowing’ what is ‘right’ which is just another way of saying if you
do something that hurts no one and do not blindly follow the beliefs
that werre indoctrinated into you , when the ‘bad’ becomes so ingrained that it is an ‘inseparable part’ of his make-up and that if they come to
accept themselves for how they were born , than in order for the bigots to’ hate’ what they think is ‘bad’ , a christian must hate the person with whom the ‘badness ‘is inseparably linked’ which is translated as being that if
a homosexual does not view themselves as inherently ‘evil’ and ‘inferior’
to heterosexuals and hate themselves that their fellow religious cohorts
must hate them for accepting their sexuality and having consensual sex with another consenting adult of the
same-gender that harms no one which is inseperably linked to their sexuality.
The religious fanatics believe they must hate in the truest sense which is to regard with ‘extreme’ and active ‘aversion’ to consider as ‘loathsome’, ‘odious’, ‘filthy’, to ‘detest’ something that doesn’t even
harm you or effect you in any way. What do they do with anything they find to be ‘loathsome’ or ‘ repugnant’ that you oddly
‘detest’ and ‘abhor’ even if it doesn’t harm you. The answer to them is simple and illogical and without any real good reason. You should get away from it or ‘remove it from your presence’,
even though it is not harming you. Which may be illegal if you try and ‘remove’ it from your ‘presensce’ without committing the abominable act of genocide or shun those who are not harming you for being who they
are and doing something that they have the legal right to do that also isn’t any of your damn business and is still not hurting you in any way. These
were from the JW Church’s publications which are quite abhorrent to me.
No wonder I gave up religion after realizing how illogical and unreasonable it can be by calling what is harmless ‘bad’ such as homosexuality and calling what is bad ‘good’ such as the bible’s admonition on holding and
beating slaves and stoning disobedient kids’. What an immoral book
of desert fairytales. The god who provided the ‘inspiration’ for sex-hating
goatherds to write this piece of digusting and filthy trash must have been
on serious drugs.
The irony. JW’s teach hate not only against the LGBT community, but anyone who does not become a member. Those who become member and subsequently leave are shunned by friends and family and called mentally diseased. This is not a religion of tolerance or moderation, it is a fundamentalist cult, promoting hatred.
Angus Robertson,
Yes. They teach hate against not only the lgbt community but anyone
else who does not become a member. Those who are a member and
than leave are shunned by their family members and friends are considered
to be ‘mentally diseased’. This is not a religion of tolerance or moderation
and is a fundamentalist group of perverts who promote hate disguised
as ‘love’ just like all other religiously fundamentalist groups.
It’s admirable that the LGBT group wishes to contribute to the reward fund. It proves they are more honorable than the cult they’re wanting to help.
I challenge Nicole Murray Ramirez to question a few Jehovah’s Witnesses on the fate of a homosexual member who comes out. Does the congregation accept them regardless of their sexuality? Will the congregation accept their marriage to a same sex partner? Or will they be disfellowshipped, aka shunned?
The Jehovah’s Witness cult has destroyed many families and friendships with their shunning practice. Many members who are shunned commit suicide when they lose their family and friends.
I also want to assure Nicole Murray Ramirez that the tolerance and support they want to give this cult will not be returned.
Tolerance should be a two-way street.
Ellen,
Yes it is admirable what the lgbt group did and they are more honorable
than the religious fanatical group they want to help. Mr. Murray Ramirez
should question the followers of this church on the fate of a homosexual
member who comes out. Does the congregation accept them regardless
of their sexuality? Unfortunately no. Will their congregation accept their
marriage to a same-sex partner? Unfortunately no, but they should. Will
they be shunned? Sadly, yes. This church of the Jebobah’s Witlesses
has destroyed many families and friendships with their shunning practices
and many members that were shunned commit suicide when they lose
their family and friends. Mr. Ramirez should know that the tolerance and
support they give this fanatical group will unfortunately not be returned.
Yes, Ellen, tolerance should be a two-way street.
As a gay ex-Jehovah’s Witness, I am really torn about this issue. I agree that as a community we who are LGBT should fight against all hate crimes and show true compassion for all. I also believe that we should not repay evil with evil, hate with hate. However, the Jehovah’s Witness organization and its practice of shunning former members has ruined the lives of many gays and lesbians, leaving me wondering if perhaps it would be better to offer sympathy, solidarity and prayers, but not financial support.
In fact, I think it would be interesting to offer the services of a group of LGBT volunteers to help with the clean up and rebuild of the Kingdom Hall. I can almost 100% assure you that this offer would be rejected, based on the principle that Witnesses should not associate with those who live a lifestyle they reject. If they reject our supportive interaction, than they should not be offered funds that could be spent aiding our community and those in more dire need.
I totally agree with you. I do not understand why the LGBT got involved here at all. It’s not like the Watchtower society is in any lack of money, so sympathy may have been more in order, not a monetary support for such a inhuman organisation. And I’m not only talking inhumanity towards homosexuals, these people are highly Christian extremists. Do we really want to support that? I for sure don’t.
fact: watchtower society have not requested any help
Naz,
Fact. You’re an idiot. The Washtowel society may not have ‘requested’
any help, but a group of people were nice enough to help your ungrateful
asses even though they did so out of the kindness of their hearts even
though they disagree with your corrupt and bigoted religious propoganda.
camilla,
I agree with you. You don’t understand why the lgbt community got involved here at all. It isn’t like the Washtowel Society Church is in any lack of many
and sympathy may have been more in order, not monetary support for such an inhumane religious institution. You’re not only talking about their inhumanity towards homosexuals, these people are highly christianite extremists in the psychological, emotional and social senses of the word. No we do not want to really support that. You and I sure don’t.
As a gay ex- Jebobah’s Witless you are torn by this issue and think the
lgbt community should fight against all hate crimes and show true compasison for all and believe that you should not repay evil with evil or hate with hate.
The JW church and their practice of shunning former members has ruined the
lives of many gays and lesbians and makes you wonder if it would be better
to offer sympathym , solidarity and prayers and not financial support.
You think it would be better to offer the services of an lgbt group of volunteers
who offer to help and clean up and rebuild the church. You can assure people
that this offer would be wrongly be rejected based on the fucked up ‘principle’
taught by the Witlesses who should not associate with those who life a
‘lifestyle’ they have no good reason to reject. If they reject your supportive
interactions than they should not be offered funds that you could use
to help your community and those who are in more dire need, yes.
Phil,
As a gay ex- Jebobah’s Witless you are torn by this issue and think the
lgbt community should fight against all hate crimes and show true compasison for all and believe that you should not repay evil with evil or hate with hate.
The JW church and their practice of shunning former members has ruined the
lives of many gays and lesbians and makes you wonder if it would be better
to offer sympathym , solidarity and prayers and not financial support.
You think it would be better to offer the services of an lgbt group of volunteers
who offer to help and clean up and rebuild the church. You can assure people
that this offer would be wrongly be rejected based on the fucked up ‘principle’
taught by the Witlesses who should not associate with those who life a
‘lifestyle’ they have no good reason to reject. If they reject your supportive
interactions than they should not be offered funds that you could use
to help your community and those who are in more dire need, yes.
Very reasonable suggestion, Phil.
Hi
Everyone has the right to choose their religion and their friends. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not lobby for anything except to legalise the right to choose and excercise a religion. The freedom that this has brought to all groups to freely express themselves without harm to others is more than adequate reciprocation for any future sympathetic act when their human rights are violated.
The capacity for jaded and vitriolic views as expressed by those victims of JW-phobia never ceases to amaze. There is no more bitter and tortured soul than a “once-was JW”!!
EEJ,
Everyone does have the right to choose their religion. The Jebobah’s Witlesses may not lobby anything except to legalize the right to choose
and exercise a religion. The freedom that this has brought to all groups to
freely express themselves without harm to others you say is’ more than
adequate reciprocation for any future sympathetic act when their human
rights are violated’.
They can act on any religious belief they want. That doesn’t mean their
beliefs are ‘true’ or that we should immediately accept those beliefs
as being ‘taboo’ to be uncriticizable or unquestionable either. I don’t
think the ‘victims of JW-phobia’ have ‘jaded’ or ‘victriolic’ views which
doesn’t cease to amaze you. These people have been hurt, some of them.
If you think being exiled and cut off from your loved ones and your former
community is so great than hopefully one day it will happen to you so that
you may see just how ‘awesome’ it is. I don’t think a ‘once-was JW’ is
a ‘bittered’ and ‘tortured’ soul. Some are. Some are trying to recover their
lives after leaving this group. Don’t be a self-righteous asswipe, dude.
Clearly Mr or Mrs Ramirez is unwavering in his/her standards and principles, regardless of who is being subjugated. That is to be commended and is a desirable quality. That said; why not defend a religious organization such as JWs? While most Christian religions either oppose or approve of LGBT lifestyles, the JW organization does neither. In fact, they are completely neutral in any type of political or social movements, including LGBT. Further, while some Christian religions fully accept LGBT in their ranks, there are many more Christian denominations that are hostile and hateful to LGBT. JWs do not hate anyone, which would be the opposite of being a Jehovah’s Witness. By the way, there are over 30,000 Christian denominations in the world. However, the JWs only go by what is found IN the bible, not what is said by ‘men’ at the pulpits. And the fact is that the Bible DOES NOT condemn someone for being ‘homosexual’. As so, JWs don’t either. For those that think all homosexuals are ‘shunned’ or ‘disfellowshipped’, the facts are different. There are in fact, GAY persons in Jehovah’s Witnesses organization. What is not tolerated, in the Bible, is the ACT (or “those practicing” Romans 1:32) of homosexuality. The act is clearly different than the person. Someone may not be able to control ‘feeling’ attraction to someone of the same sex, but they can control the act of it; which is what the Bible requires to be a follower in good standing of God and his son, Jesus Christ. It is true of any sin, be it adultery, drunkenness, violence, or an act of homosexuality. As someone once put it, “In my mind, I am gay, but in my heart I obey Jehovah [God]”. A JW chooses to obey God’s word rather than their own desires. And that’s all. No one is shunned for being gay, but anyone is ‘disfellowshipped’ for violating Biblical laws on sins, to include homosexual acts, if not repentant. Ultimately, it’s a choice. Much like LGBT is. Thank you for reading – and I do not mean to offend anyone, but the fact is that the Bible isn’t wavering on its standards and principles, much like Ms (or Mr) Ramirez. And that is a JW quality.
Being gay is not a choice. Being a brainwashed believer of a book of fairy tales and in the superiority of men over women is.
Moon,
I totally agree. Being gay is not a ‘choice’. Being a brianwashed believer in
a book of fairytales and the superiority of men over women is a choice.
ZisforPeace, and the JW church like all other Christianite denominations cherry-pick what passages suit their prejudices and hatreds and digusting practices that they want act on literally and those that they
want to take metaphorically. If you truly believe in the ‘infallibilty’ of
this religious text than you must also stone disobedient kids, non-virgin
brides and those who make false ‘prophecies’ to death, sell your daughters into slavery, beat your slaves when they disobey you, stop eating shellfish and wearing mixed-fabrics, burn prostitutes to death,
call non-Jewish women racial slurs, abandon and hate your loved ones
in order to be a disciple of Jesus, forbid women from speaking up in church, women must be considered ‘unclean’ after having their periods
or giving birth to a daughter for 30 days and you must kill those who follow religions other than Judaism and Christians are forbidden to eat
a meal with non-Christians, but I don’t think ZisforPeace or the members
of the Fundamentalist Christian JW Church act on or follow these beliefs
which makes them nothing more than a bunch of cherry-picking hypocrites! There is nothing wrong with being gay or being in a
romantically and sexually active relationship with a partner or spouse
of the same-gender at all. Who gives a shit about a bunch of irrelevant
quotes from desert men who had a limited knowledge and understanding
of the world and medicine, psychology and their views on homosexuality
and gay sex are entirely wrong in every way.
ZisforPeace,
Mr. Ramirez is being unwavering in his standards and principles regardless
of who is being ‘subjegated’. That is a commended and desirable quality, I
agree. Why not defend a religious institution such as the Fundamentalist
Christian -Denominational JW Church? They should have but they don’t
have to agree with the church’s warped views on homosexuality which clearly belong in the Bronze-Age. While must religions either ‘oppose’
lgbt ‘lifestyles’ , which is wrong and others approve of lgbt people which
is right though the religion thing in itself is stupid. The JW Church does
‘neither’, you say. Really. They are ‘completely’ neutral in any type of political or social movements including lgbt. It’s true that some Christianite
religions fully accept lgbt people in their ranks which is very generousm
there are many more Christianite denominations that are hostile and
hateful to lgbt people and they are the ones who are wrong. JWs, you
say do not ‘hate’ anyone which would be the opposite of being a Jebobah’s
Witless, which I don’t believe is true. I am fully well aware that there are
over 30,000 Christianite denominations in the world and all of them are
wrong at least to me. JWs only go by what is found ‘in the booble’ and
not what is being said by ‘men at the pulpits’. Really? You believe your
leaders are in direct ‘communication’ with Yahweh the Abrahamic god and
you are supposed to believe everything they say without question or disagreement of any kind. You go door-to-door to give people poorly-written and illustrated magazines filled with graphic pictures of death and destruction and use syrupy-sweet language to get them to join your church. Shouldn’t you be handing out boobles instead? Is it not idolatry
to hand out a religious magazine or tract instead of the actual text that
this literature is based off of? Why not give them the ‘meat’ instead of the
‘milk’? You say the fact is that the Booble does ‘not condemn’ someone
for ‘being’ a homosexual. Don’t put ‘homosexual’ in quotations, sweetie.
You say the JWs don’t either. That’s a laugh. Sure you do, don’t lie. You
say that for those who ‘think’ all homosexuals are shunned and excommmunicated , the ‘facts’ are ‘different’. How so? BTW, don’t put
‘shunned’ or ‘excommunicated’ in quotations. You say it is a ‘fact’ that
there are gay persons in the JW Church. Yes, those who are in the closet
or a in the sham of a mixed-orientation ‘marriage’ or are leading an abnormal, unnatural, unhealthy , immoral and dangerous life of romantic
and sexual repression. There are no same-sex couples or same-sex headed families in your church I’ve noticed. What is ‘not tolerated’ you
said in the fictional Booble is the act or ‘those practicing of homosexuality
which is ridiculous. The Booble is wrong for ‘not tolerating’ the act or
practice of homosexuality which does not and is not harming anyone.
I told care what the Book of the Romans in the Booble think about homosexuality. The Book of the Romans in the Booble and its authors
are wrong about their views on homosexuality, so case closed. The act is not ‘clearly different’ than the person. Someone may not be able to control the feeling of attraction to someone of the same-sex which is true. But,
they shouldn’t and cannot ‘control’ the act of it, which you claim is required
in your desert book of fairytales in order to be a follower in ‘good standing’
of Yahweh and ‘his son’, Cheesus Chrust. Homosexuals should not try
and ‘control’ the act of their sexuality as it is harmful and denying them
a piece of their own humanity. Having sexually-active relationships with someone of the same-gender who you are in love with is not doing harm to anyone. You claim it ‘hurts’ your god’s ‘feelings’ when he has not been
proven to even a exist. Quoting from a book of fairytales that was rewritten
and translated countless times by humans which was also written by fallible humans with their own dislikes and prejudices, cupcake is not substantial or reliable hard-evidence, sorry you lose. The Booble is wrong for
it’s ‘requirements’ on homosexuals having to live an unnatural and abnormal
life of repression to be seen as ‘favorable’ in your evil sky-daddy’s eyes.
It actually requires you to stone them to death , but I venture that you
don’t do that nor do I think you would as that would be immoral and wrong
because they is no reason for you to stone homosexuals to death as they are not harming you. This is not ‘true’ of ‘any sin’ whether
it be drunkenness, cheating on your spouse, violence or an act of homosexuality which is harmless. Homosexuality is not a ‘sin’ and there
is no such thing as ‘sin’. Sure being a drunk, violence and cheating on
your spouse are harmful, but they are not ‘sins’. Homosexuality should
not be compared to ‘drunks, cheating-spouses’ or ‘those who commit violent actions’ as those are acts that harm others, gay sex harms no one.
Your gaysexophobia is astounding to say the least. As this demented
person once put it that in their mind they are gay, but in their ‘heart’ they
‘obey’ the Abrahamic god. This person should leave the JW church and
get in a romantically and sexually active relationship with another person
of the same-gender like they are supposed to, not blindly basing their
life on a fictional book of fairytales and a supreme being who most likely
does not exist and would not be worthy of worship or praise even if he
did exist. A JW ‘chooses’ to ‘obey’ their god’s ‘word’ rather than their ‘own
desires’. I’m sure they do if this god’s alleged ‘word’ already agrees with your own
personal digust of a group of people who are not doing anything to hurt you just because you don’t understand them or are uncomfortable that they live
life and love a bit ‘differently’ than you do. I don’t believe the booble is
the ‘word’ of the abrahamic god whom I don’t believe exists nor do I
believe it is the ‘inspired word’ of any god to be precise. Using a book
of fairytales to hide behind as an excuse to try and ‘cover-up’ your homophobia and gaysexophobia is really pathetic and is not a ‘legitimate’
reason for being a bigot. No one is shunned for being gay, but anyone
is excommunicated for ‘violating’ booblical ‘laws’ on ‘sins’, to ‘include’
homosexual acts, if they are not ‘repentant’. Engaging in homosexual
acts is not ‘violating’ the fictional booblical ‘laws’ on ‘sins’ if they are not
‘repentant’. Homosexuality is not a ‘sin’. Engaging in homosexual acts is not a ‘sin’. Homosexuals do not need to be ‘repentant’ as there is nothing to ‘repent’ for as they are not harming anyone just by having sex with another consenting adult who just happens to be of the same-gender which
is part of what they are supposed to do as a sexual being with same-sex
attraction, duh. Ultimately, dickweed, it’s not a ‘choice’, much like being lgbt isn’t. It’s a response to
their sexual feelings that they have the right to act because it harms no
one and the right response to make by acting on your sexual feelings with
a same-gendered partner cause that is what your supposed to do if you
like the same-sex and it harms nobody. Being lgbt is not a ‘choice’. Your sex-hating antics aren’t working, honeyboo. Being a bible-and-religious magazine- thumping, homophobic, transphobic, bisexualiophobic, lesbianophobic and gaysexophobic bigot is a choice and not a very good
one at that. Your welcome for me reading your garbage, but I do think
you mean to offend others and it isn’t a ‘fact’ that the booble
isn’t ‘wavering’ on its abominable ‘standards’ and ‘principles’, which isn’t ‘much like’ Mr. Ramirez at all. That might be a JW ‘quality’, but I don’t think a JW or anyone else should have such a perverted ‘quality’ as it
has the potential to and has caused great damage. The fictionalized booble should be wavering
on some of its ‘standards’ and ‘principles’ which are abhorrent and wrong. The booble’s so-called ‘standards’ and ‘principles’ on homosexuality and gay sex are wrong and should be ridiculed, condemned , ignored
and discardes as well as it’s admonitions to kill direspectful children and selling your daughters into slavery and viewing women on their periods as being ‘unclean’ are wrong as these ‘standards’ and ‘principles’ have and do
cause great harm and should be discarded all together. Mr. Ramirez did not use a book of fairytales for justifying either to help or not to help a fundamentalist and controlling church. He used basic human kindness and
his ability to use compassion , sympathy and empathy which comes from inside him to make his decision to help the JW’s repair one of their torched churches and that is a remarkable human quality and is better than any
‘quality’ the JWs or followers of any church or religion have shown towards
hmosexuals. Peace.
I find it strange that the JWs would accept this type of help. These are the people that they say will be personally killed by their God. They certainly wouldn’t help if the hate crime were to go the other way.
NillaMo,
True. It is strange the JWs would accept this ‘type’ of help from people
who aren’t hurting anyone whom they personally dislike for the wrong reasons. These are the people they say will wrongly be killed by their
god personally. LGBT are not going to be killed ‘personally’ by their fictional
god or anyone else’s deity. They certainly wouldn’t help if the hate crime
were to go the other way which the JW Church should be ashamed of
if they had any heart at all.
Wow… a couple of weeks ago you were telling us not to support the Salvation Army.
Jeff Hanks,
A couple of weeks ago he was telling you not to support the Salvationite
Armyite. Nobody should support the ‘Salvation’ Army whether on this lgbtweekly.jeffjungblut.com news site or anywhere else as they use their
money to organizations that publically discriminate against the lgbt community and other people such as non-theistic religious minorites and
non-religious minorities and such.
im so with kyria 101%.
@jasunhicks,
I’m so with Kyria 100% too.
What a misleading… If someone doesn’t agree with JW don’t associate with them. Some crime they commited? Prove it on court…
Joseph,
This is not ‘misleading’. If someone doesn’t agree with the JW church don’t
associate with them. Some crime they commited, yes that crime is homophobic bigotry. Don’t have to ‘prove it’ on court. Homophobic bigotry is th crime of the JW church. Idiot.
This won’t solve anything… I hope people do not remember to make murder normal. Please…
Robert,
True, this won’t ‘solve’ anything and nobody is going to ‘remember’ to mkae
murder ‘normal’. So don’t ask , please.
The person who has done these crimes needs to be captured and punished.
Also the Watchtower and Jehovah’s Witness need to examine their own hearts when they publish and find pleasure in viewing non-Witness religious buildings being burned, destroyed with people running and screaming with panic.
Alex,
The person who did this crime should be captured and punished. The Washtowel and the Jebobah’s Witlesses do need to re-examine their own
hearts when they publish graphic pictures and find pleasure in viewing
non-Witless religious buildings being burned down and destroyed with people running and screaming in panic as that is a digusting and inhumane thing to do.
Someone said: “but will never advocate violence or political opposition to those that chose to be homosexual.”
Nope; but they damn well will give you “timely reminders” that you would have been stoned to death in the days of the Israelites. They will also tell you of the wonderful day in the future when all the homosexuals and lesbians will have their eyes pecked out of their skulls by ravens on the day of Christ’s glorious and triumphant return.
Craig L. Stevens,
Yes, they damn sure well will give you a ‘timely reminder’ that you would
have been ‘stoned to death’ in the days of the ancient Jews which is wrong.
They will aslo tell you of the ‘wonderful day’ in the future when all the sexually active homosexuals and lesbians will have their ‘eyes pecked out of their skulls by ravens’ on the day of Chrust’s ‘glorious and triumphant return’. The ancient Jews had no real good reason to stone homosexuals to death in the old days and they should never had stoned homosexuals to death in the first place as the
homosexuals were not hurting anyone. I don’t believe that Chrust will make
a ‘glorious’ nor a ‘triumphant’ return nor will he make a ‘return’ of any kind.
in the old days and I reject the belief that on the not-so-wonderful in the
‘future’ that all the homosexuals and lesbians who are sexually active with
their same-sex partners will ‘have their eyes pecked out of their skulls by
ravens’. I don’t believe that the ‘wonderful day’ of ‘judgement’ will ever come. I don’t believe that the ‘end-of-the-world’ will ever come at least not
the fictional Abrahamite or any other religious version of it.
This is a warning toward mothers and fathers that sexually abuse their children taken directly from Watchtower (Jehovah’s Witnesses) propaganda:
“Did you know, for example, that mothers and fathers who stroke the genitals of their fretful babies to keep them quiet are unwittingly encouraging them to become masturbators later on?” (Watchtower, Sept 15, 1973, p. 568, par. 6)
I would not be surprised if the alleged arson was an attempt by an active member to destroy the personal dossiers they keep on every member.
This word of warning to mother and fathers who sexually abuse their children is taken directly from the Washtowel and the Jebobah’s Witlesses propaganda.
They’re asking the written if they know that mothers or fathers who stroke
the genitals of their ‘fretful’ babies in order to keep them quiet are unwittingly
‘encouraging ‘ them to become masturbators later on. Where do they get this shit from? I’m pretty sure you cannot find that in the fictional desert book of
fairytales. There’s nothing wrong with masturbating or masturbation. Any parent that strokes their child’s gentials deserves to have their sickened
and perverted hands chopped off. People don’t masturbate because their
parents ‘stroked their genitals’ , they masturbate because they are sexually
horny , duh! There is nothing wrong with masturbating or masturbation
as it does not cause harm and is a healthy from of sexual expression that
ALL humans beings engage in.
I am Gay, and was raised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. When my Family and friends in the Kingdom Hall found out, I was disfellowshipped and shunned by all friends, and I was disowned by my parents. I was told that because of being Gay that I may as well be a murderer or rapist as far as they were concerned. My Father had died, and I did not find out until 3 years after the fact while doing a search on the internet. In the JW org. being Gay is one of the most horrendous sins possible. Thankfully, after much therapy, I was able to survive the trauma. Unfortunately though, there are many, many who have taken their own lives because they couldn’t deal with the shunning and ostracism within the JW’s just for being Gay.
Even so, I laud the Gay community for being empathetic to those who would rather see them die. Never would JW’s do the same thing for Gay people, as it is totally against what they believe. The kindness of the Gay community proves even more to me that love for one another trumps the hate that JW’s have towards those who do not believe what they teach.
Thank you to my Brothers and Sisters in the LGBT community, I am very proud to be part of you and your kindness.
Like someone else here said – This is like the Black Brotherhood giving money to KKK to build up their altar that someone knocked down.
As much as I feel with you growing up like that, I cannot understand your taking on this. In fact, I find it slightly embarrassing and somewhat pathetic.
camilla,
Just like someone else here said – This is like the Black Brotherhood giving money to KKK to build up their altar that someone knocked down which would be disgusting.
As much as you feel with him growing up like that, you cannot understand his taking on this. In fact, you find it slightly embarrassing and somewhat pathetic and so do I.
CJ from Texas,
You’re gay and was rasied as a member of the Jebobah’s Witlesses. When your ‘family’ and ‘friends’ in your church found out, you were excommunicated and shunned by all friends and was disowned by your ‘parents’. What a shame. You were told that because of being gay that you may as well be a ‘murderer’ or a ‘rapist’ as far as they were concerned.
Being gay does not harm anyone and is not in any way equivalent to be
a ‘rapist’ or a ‘murderer’ as these are illegal crimes that actually harm people. Your father died and you did not find out until three years after the
fact while doing a search on the internet. That’s so sad. In the JW Church
being gay is one of the most ‘horrendous sins’ possible. Being gay is
neither ‘horrendous’ nor a ‘sin’. Luckily for you after much therapy, you were able to survive the trauma , but unfortunately, there are many, many
who have taken their own lives because they couldn’t deal with the shunning and the ostracism within the JW Church just for being gay
and were not hurting anybody which is a sad fact. You applaud the
gay community for being empathetic to those who would pervertedly
‘rather see them die’. The JWs would never do the same thing for gay
people as it is totally ‘against’ what they strangely believe. Sad, but true.
The kindness of the gay community does prove even more to and me that
the love for one another trumps the hate that the JW’s have toward those
who do not believe what they bizarrely ‘teach’. You thanked your lgbt brothers and sisters in the lgbt community and are very proud of them for
their kindness. Awesome. I hope you’re okay, CJfromTexas and that
you are in a romantically and sexually active relationship with another
man who loves and cares for you. I think its sick and perverted that the
JW Church would ‘rather see’ gay people or anyone else ‘die’ which I
don’t believe is going to happen. Of course they will make up pathetic excuses for their unnatural and abnormal beliefs just like all other religious fanatics.
Gamaliel nailed it Jeff.
But thanks LGBT, our rights are your rights.
EEJ,
You said Gamaliel ‘nailed’ it, to Jeff.
You thank lgbt, as your rights are their rights. True, but your still a homophobic
and gaysexophobic bigot at the end of the day. That doesn’t change the loathing I feel for your bigotry and hate whether it comes from your religion
that I personally don’t believe in or not.
Should this be seen as LGBT members applying Rom 12:20? But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” [fiery coals ‘soften’ a person, as they were used to soften metals back then] Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.
If so, it’s very noble of them. When you’re doing good to your ‘enemy’ [I’ll acknowledge that many LGBT might regard us that way] you don’t know if it will have your intended effect or not. But you do it anyway.
tom sheepandgoats,
This should be seen as lgbt members helping you out of kindness in the hearts, not by applying a fictional book of the Romans in your desert book of fairytales.
If their ‘enemy ‘ is hungry feed him and if he thirst then give him something to
something to drink for by doing that they will heap ‘fiery coals’ upon hid
head and they should not let themselves be conquered by the ‘evil’ but
keep conquering the ‘evil’ with ‘good which is what the authors of this
fairytale book claimed ‘Paul’ whom I don’t believe even existed wrote in
his letter to the Christian church of the Romans. I don’t agree that fiery coals do not ‘soften’
a person and I don’t believe ‘they were used to soften metals back then’.
I don’t believe everything I read in a desert book of fairytales.
Yes, it is very noble of them. When you’re doing good to your enemy
and you acknowledge that many lgbt ‘might regard you in that way’.
You don’t know if it will have their intended effect or not as you said, but
you do it any way. That is called genuine kindness that does not come
from a book of desert fairytales, tom sheepandgoats, but from the goodness of the human spirit. The lgbt community does not see the individual members
of the JW Church as their ‘enemies’, but they do see their religious propaganda as their enemies of course. Who wouldn’t?
I meant to say that I don’t believe that fiery coals ‘soften’ a person.
That’s quite false and untrue. They scare people and burn people.
Fiery coals do not ‘soften’ any person up but only do harm.
Here is another favorite from Jehovah’s Witnesses scriptures, Watchtower, February 15, 2012. We can here follow Selma, who is being physically abused by her husband but gets the loving advice from another witness to just endure and show kindness to her husband and all will be well. And voila – 17 years of abuse later, the husband understands “the truth”.
Selma recalls a lesson she learned from theWitness who studied with her. “On one particular day,” says Selma, “I didn’t want to have a Bible study. The
night before, Steve had hit me as I had tried to prove a point, and I was feeling
sad and sorry for myself. After I told the sister what had happened and how
I felt, she asked me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. As I did, I began to reason,
‘Steve never does any of these loving things for me.’ But the sister made me
think differently by asking, ‘How many of those acts of love do you show toward your husband?’ My answer was, ‘None, for he is so difficult to live with.’ The sister softly said, ‘Selma, who is trying to be a Christian here? You or Steve?’ Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve. Slowly, things started to change.”After 17 years, Steve accepted the truth.
Seriously, what century are we talking here?
camilla,
Your other favorite article from a JW magazine is a story of a woman who
is being physically abused by her husband and gets ‘loving advice’ from a
fellow church member to just ‘endure’ and show ‘kindness’ to her husband and
all will ‘be well’. After enduring 17 years of abuse her husband finally
understands the ‘truth’. Or inspires him to became a convert into the JW
church. This is really loaded language of cult-like inspirations.
This woman recalls a ‘lesson’ she ‘learned’ from the member of the JW church
who is teaching her about the church’s doctrines. One day this woman did
not want to have her usual ‘lessons’ of learning the doctrine of the church because
the night before her husband hit her as she tried to ‘prove’ a ‘point’ and she
felt so sad and sorry for herself. Her husband could have just agreed to
disagree with her instead of hitting his ‘wife’ like a rational person. She told
her fellow female church member what happened and how she felt and
the female church member told her to read a passage from the fictional
1st book of the Corinthianites. As the battered wife read the passage shw
began to ‘reason’ that her husband never does any of those ‘loving things’
for her. The female church member made her ‘think differently’ by asking her
how many of those loving acts does this wife show towards her dick of
a ‘husband’. The wife’s answer was none because he is very difficult to
live with and the female church member softly says who is trying to be
the ‘christian’ in the situation? The battered wife or the abusive ‘husband.
The wife realized that she needed to ‘adjust’ her ‘thinking ( I wonder if this
wife or her fellow female church member even ‘think’ at all) and she prayed
her her false and fictional god to help her be more loving towards her husband.
Slowly things began to ‘change’ for the woman as 17 years later her husband had ‘accepted’ the ‘truth’. What is the ‘truth’? The ‘point’ the wife was
trying to ‘prove’ over a religious discussion or trying to manipulate and coerce her husband into joining a religion that he personally does not agree with.
Even if this man in the fictional story doesn’t agree with his “wife’s” religion
or with a religious ‘point’ that she thought she was trying to ‘prove’ doesn’t
mean that he had any right to hit her or that the wife had to endure 17 years of abuse before he ‘changed’ his mind which he didn’t have to do if he didn’t
agree with her , but that doesn’t mean nor excuse his abusive and harmful behavior
towards his spouse either.
I agree , Camilla, seriously what century are we talking about here?
I absolutely dislike this!!!!
I have as well as many other LGBT family’s and friends, been cause much pain by the bigoted hate of Jehovah Witnesses!! I was in the religion for over 25 years and was asked to become a ministerial servant when I decided that I could not because I had been living in the closet about being gay, I was completely cut off!! Not only did I lose my kids, my mother , and all the rest of my family and what I thought was close friends but I lost my job and my name was slandered by many in the religion and by my now Ex-wife. This religion is one of the most hateful religions when it comes to this aspect of life. they have no understanding and do not wish to ever be opened up to the idea of understanding the TRUTH about being in the LGBT community! I do not hate this religion!! I just think that for people that are living the TRUTH (LGBT community) to be giving money that could be better used is a horrible thing! I think that the people that decided to give this money should have better researched the religion and and not just blindly donated to people that obviously have the resources and ability to take care of themselves! I feel like this is just an attempt to make a name for someone and not to really spend the money wisely. There are many other people that could have benefited from this money. Especially those that don’t have the means to make it from what that religion or others for that matter have put them through!
I live in this same area and I know both of the people mentioned above. I will have to say that this REALLY dis-appointed me!!
Your truly,
Benjamin Kneifel,
BRAVO TO YOU! IT IS HATEFUL and TAKING MONEY TO GIVE TO YOUR PERSECUTORS IS ABSURD.
I am not a member of the GLBT community although I support them. I unfortunately, have had or tried to have relationships with women who left that religion and even heterosexual, they are incapable due to the damage done by the religion. Use the money to truly help not look like a superstar
S M Johnston,
BRAVO TO them! IT IS HATEFUL and TAKING MONEY TO GIVE TO them PERSECUTORS IS ABSURD.
You are not a member of the GLBT community although you support them. You unfortunately, have had or tried to have relationships with women who left that religion and even heterosexual, they are
incapable due to the damage done by the religion. Use the money to truly help not look like a superstar which is what they should do.
Ben Kneifel,
You absolutely dislike this.
You have as well as many other lgbt family members and friends have been
caused so much pain by the bigotry and hatred of the JW Church. You were a member of the religion for over 25 years and was asked to become
a servant to the minister when you decided that you could not because you had been living in the closet about being gay and was completely cut off
and not only did you loose your kids, your mother and all the rest of your
family members in the religion and your by-now ex-‘wife’. This religion is
one of the most hateful religions when it comes to the aspect of life. I agree. They prefer to live a life of wishful thinking instead of embracing reality. They have no understanding and do not wish to ever be opened up to the idea of understanding the truth about what it is like being in the lgbt community and that is sad. You do not hate this religion, you just disagree with its beliefs and practices like I do. You just think for people living the
truth such as the lgbt community to be giving money that could be better used is a horrible thing. You think that the people who decided to give this money should have better researched the religion and not just blindly donated money to people that obviously have the resources and ability to take care of themselves. You feel like this is just an attempt to make a name for someone and not to really spend the money wisely. There are many other people that could have benefited from this money. Especially
those that don’t have the means to make it from what the fanatical religion
or other bigots for that matter have put them through.
I agree.
You live in this same area and you know both of the people mentioned above and you will have to say that this really disappointed you, Benjamin
Kneifel.
Benjamin Kneifel,
I hope you have a boyfriend who you are in a romantically and sexually active relationship with.
As individuals most Jehovah’s Witnesses are peace-loving people. Many that have joined the faith have done so upon learning of their message of a peaceful new world where there will be no more war, no more death and everyone will love each other as brothers and sisters.
What are Jehovah’s Witnesses taught about homosexuality? Janet’s quotes above provide an excellent insight[1]. At the heart of the matter is the view the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Since acts of homosexuality are condemned in the Bible (Lev 20 : 13), even to the point of excluding one from God’s Kingdom (1 Cor 6 : 9, 10), Witnesses are taught such behavior must not be allowed among them. Any who openly engage in such behavior will inevitably face disfellowshipping (1 Cor 5 : 13) and subsequent shunning.
The pain that goes with being disfellowshipped can be tremendous. It like a living death sentence, since faithful members are taught to treat as dead anyone in a disfellowshipped state, not even saying “hello” if they see them. One can easily see why Benjamin (see post above) would take issue with this support of the Witnesses by the LGBT community.
Yet, even as an ex-JW myself, I think LGBT community leaders (Nicole, Bruce, Todd, et al) have made a good decision here. I take note they’ve pledged $5,000 as a reward to find the arsonist — rather than donate any money directly to the organization itself. Not only might this help the police find a criminal, but news of this may help any struggling gay Witness realize good and decent people exist outside the organization.
It is also true how most Witnesses act is more of a matter of obedience (Heb 13 : 7) than a personal decision to be hateful. In fact when someone is named at the Kingdom Hall as part of a disfellowshipping announcement the congregation is not told what “crime” has been committed. Thus most obedient members who shun do not know why a particular individual was disfellowshipped or if the judicial committee[2] acted justly.
If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I can understand you may object to my characterization here. But, just think. At one time non-baptized members were also subjected to a form of disfellowshipping and shunning by being identified as a ‘disapproved associate’ — yet, one day The Watchtower, reversed this stance. Suddenly a formerly shunned group was welcomed and spoken to, some even became baptized members.
Cheers,
-Randy
[1] Fundamentally the doctrinal view has not changed over time. However, one can easily see how it has been expressed as been toned down and made more palatable. That, I believe, is in response to over-all progress of gay-rights in society at large.
[2] An internal tribunal of elders, who judge cases in secret.
Randy G.,
You said most individual Jebobah’s Witlesses are ‘peace-loving’ people
and that is true. You said that many that have joined the denomination have done so upon learning of their fictional ‘message’ of a ‘peaceful new world’ where there will be ‘no more war’ and ‘no more death’ and that everyone will’ love’ each other as ‘brothers and sisters’. I personally don’t
believe in their ‘message’ of there being a ‘peaceful new world’, I don’t
believe there will be ‘no more wars’ and I don’t believe there will be ‘no more
death and that everyone will ‘love ‘ each other other as ‘brothers and sisters’
on this fictional ‘new earth’ which I don’t believe will ever happen. I don’t
believe their god exists nor do I believe he will ‘create a new earth’. It is nothing more than wishful thinking an a fairytale to me that will never come true and is only a fantasitical dream.
What are the Jebobah’s Witlesses ‘taught’ about homosexuality? Janet’s quotes above provide an excellent insight and very truthful look. At the ‘heart’ of the ‘matter’ is the ‘view’ the fictional Booble is the ‘inerrant word’ of their god. I don’t believe their god exists so I also don’t
believe that their fictional book of fairytales is the ‘inerrant word’
of their god whom I think is fictional. You said you think that acts of homosexuality are supposedly ‘condemned’ in the Booble in the fictional book of Leviticusite, even to the ‘point’ of ‘excluding’ one from their god’s fictional kingdom in the fictional 1st book of the Corinthianites. I don’t believe in their god’s fictional kingdom and I don’t believe homosexuals
would be ‘excluded’ just for having sex with their same-gendered
partner which is an act that harms no one if this god was truly
all loving and there is no justifiable ‘ point’ to this and there is no ‘heart’
in this matter that I can see. I think
the booble’s ‘condemnation’ of homosexual acts which harm nobody in the fictional books of the
Leviticusites and the 1st book of the Corinthianites are wrong as there
is no reason for the fictional books of the Leviticusites or the 1st book
of the Corinthianites to ‘condemn’ homosexual acts in the first place as they don’t hurt anybody. The Witlesses are ‘taught’ such behavior must ‘not be allowed’ among them. The church does not
permit sexually active homosexuals as members and so they excommunicate them . Any who ‘openly engage’ in such behavior will inevitably face excommunication based on their interpretation of a passage from the fictitious 1st book of the Corinthianites and subsequent shunning by the entire religious group. Most homosexuals do not ‘openly’ have gay
sex in front of their fellow church members. The suspicion or accusation
that one has had gay sex which harms no one with a same-sex partner
is subjected to punishment which might result in excommunication if they
do not feel ‘sorry’ for doing something that harmed no one and nor should they feel ‘sorry’ nor do they have to ask for ‘forgiveness’ as they did nothing wrong.
You have said that the pain that goes with being disfellowshipped can be tremendous which is true. It like a living death sentence in the eyes of the apostate since ‘devout’ members are taught to treat as ‘dead’ anyone in a excommunicated state and cannote even say “hello” if they should see them anywhere. I think its digusting that they are indoctrinated into treating these ex-members ‘as if they were dead’ is appalling behavior. I agree that anyone can easily see why Benjamin would
rightfully take issue with this support of the Witlesses by the LGBT community.
Yet, even as an ex-JW yourself, you think LGBT community leaders (Nicole, Bruce, Todd, et al) have made a good decision here. You take note they’ve pledged $5,000 as a reward to find the arsonist — rather than donate any money directly to the religious instituiton itself. Not only might this help the police find a criminal, but news of this act of kindness may help any ‘struggling’ gay Witless realize that good and decent people exist outside the church which is a plus. Hopefully the gay or lgbt Witless will
leave the religion, learn to accept themselves and get in a romantically
and sexually active relationship with another person of the same- gender
or pursue and successfully complete a gender identity reassignment change
It is also true how most Witlesses act is more of a matter of ‘obedience’ to their religious leaders and the rules of their church as found in their interpretatin of a passage from the fictional book of the Hebrewites ) than a ‘personal decision ‘to be hateful which I don’t entirely agree with. Homosexuality and same-sex relationships make them feel uncomfortable and they don’t understand it so they use a fictional book of religious fairytales from the desert as an excuse for their bigotry and hate and
claim they are just ‘following orders’ from their god and just ‘doing’ what their church leaders ‘command ‘ them to do which still is no excuse for their bigotry and hate. You’ve said that when someone is named at their individual congregation as part of a excommunication announcement that the members of that congregation are not told what “crime” has been ‘committed’. In the case of homosexuality there is no ‘crime’
that has been ‘committed’ as the homosexual was just having sex with their
same-gendered partner which is an act that does not harm them. So most ‘obedient’ and ‘devout’ members of the church who do shun the former member do not know why a particular individual was excommunicated or if the church court acted ‘justly’ which is sometimes
true , but it isn’t any of their business and the church court didn’t act
‘justly’ in my eyes for throwing out someone who was engaging in consensual behavior that harms no one.
If a reader is a member of the Jebobah’s Witlesses, than you can understand they may ‘object’ to your true ‘characterization’ presented here.
You were honest about their fucked-up ‘policies’ and they cannot fault
you for that. But they should just think at one time a non-baptized member was also subjected to a form of excommunication and shunning by being identified as an ‘apostate’ — yet, one day The Washtowel, reversed this stance which
is an okay type of change, but not ‘great’ if you asked me. They used
to kick out members not baptized into the church and shun them and have
claimed that their god ‘told’ them to let unbaptized members remain in the church. Yeah fucking right. I don’t believe their god ‘tells’ them anything. Suddenly a formerly shunned group was welcomed and spoken to and some even decided to baptized members of the church. They think
their god ‘told’ their leaders through some ‘divine revealation’ to let unbaptized members remain in the church and to recieve them ‘warmly’.
What a crock of shit. Their god didn’t ‘tell’ them anything.
It seems that ‘fundamentally’ the evil ‘doctrinal view’ towards homosexuality has not ‘changed’ over time , unfortunately. You say however a person can ‘easily see’ how it has been expressed as been ‘toned down ‘and made ‘more palatable’. It has been toned down
but I don’t see it as being somehow ‘more palatable’. I don’t see it being
‘palatable’ at all in any kind of way to be honest. That you believe this
toned down ‘view’ is in response to over-all progress of gay rights in society at large which may be true , but it’s not that much ‘better’ than their previous views. In fact, it’s not ‘better’ at all. The ‘conditions’ that
lgbt members are given are unfair and they are given strings attatched to
their membership and are subjected to double standards that are not given
to all members of the church including married heterosexual couples.
The lgbt members are better off leaving the church and leading life
as an authentic lgbt person or creating a more liberal version of the
church that is compatible with being lgbt.
The church court is a appointed group of religious leaders who judge secret cases of members who have committed some sort of ‘offense’
against the church. I am aware what their church court is and what
actions they take against persons who are disciplined over something
the church finds to be ‘offensive’ and ‘against’ their ‘policies’.
Randy G,
I hope your not homophobic as there is nothing wrong with being
lgbt or having a romantically and sexually active relationship with
another consenting adult of the same gender or pursuing and completing
a gender identity reassignment change successfully. I don’t care what
is written in their or your fictional books of fairytales as those books and
their views on lgbt people and gay sex are wrong. Get over it. Don’t preach
about the practices or beliefs of your former religion because nobody gives
a shit.
Jehovah’s Witness don’t involve themselves in politics.. they wont be our ally, but they wont fight against us as Salvation Army has.
CitizenKurt,
The Jebobah’s Witlesses don’t involve themselves in politics and they
won’t be you ally which is wrong, but at least they don’t actively like the
bigoted Salvationite Armyite has.
There are better ways to spend scarce resources for human rights. Ask any gay person, such as myself, who was raised in that despicable excuse for a religion what it is like to be kicked out and shunned by family for the rest of one’s life. Do you also support their right to withhold medical care (blood transfusions) to the point of death? Do you support their right to the liberties that we enjoy as they spit on the soldiers who have won and kept that liberty? They do so by refusing to serve in our military. As to those JW apologists who commented on them in this thread, get a clue.
man you are bitter. no one is telling you how to live your life! if you value freedom, let JW’s follow the Bible just as they do.
your choice to go against Bible commands is yours to make.
Naz,
Your the one who actually sounds bitter. It is true that nobody is telling
him or them how to live his life or their lives. If they value freedom , then
let the JW’s follow the fictional Booble just as they do. They can but
that doesn’t mean we have to agree with the manner in which they go
about following their immoral book of Religious Fairytales from the Saudi Arabian Desert. We don’t have to agree with the homophobic views
that the Jebobah’s Witlesses get from their interpretation of their book of fairytales without those homophobic views being challenged. The homophobic beliefs that they get from this fairytale book of the desert
based on their interpretation are wrong. Their choice to go ‘against’ Booblical ‘commands’ is theirs to make and it is a good choice to make at that.
Their not going ‘against’ the Booblical’s ‘commands’ just to be a jerk, they merely see the Booble’s ‘commands’ as being wrong and immoral as well as it being
harmful to act on this ‘command’, so they should go against it as it causes
harm. The fictionalBooble’s ‘commands’ about homosexuality are wrong and immoral and should
should be ignored, ridiculed, condemned and discarded for the pile
of worthless and harmful garbage that it is. The JW Church members
have no right to tell any two consenting adults of the opposite or
same gender whether partnered, married or unmmarried if they can have sex, how they can have sex, when they can have sex or who they can have sex with as that is for the opposite-sex or same-sex couples to make. Face it, Naz, not everyone agrees with your religion and their homophobic views. Get over it!
Mark Campbell,
There are better ways to spend scarce resources for human rights. Ask any gay person such as yourself who was raised in that despicable excuse for a religion and what it is like to be kicked out and shunned by your family for the
rest of ones’ life. I do not support their right to without medical care such as
blood tranfusions to the point of death without being punished for it, no.
Do I support the liberties that we enjoy as they spit and badmouth the soldiers who have won in order for them to keep that liberty, no. They should not badmouth those soldiers as they is rude and disrespectful
and I don’t give a shit what their religion thinks about ‘war’. They do
keep this liberty by refusing to serve in our military which they have
the right to do , though I don’t agree with their reasons. Those JW church apologists who commented on the comments in this thread should
as you say: get a clue and understand that not everyone agrees with
their beliefs and practices in an uncritical and unquestioning way.
I hope you have a boyfriend who you are in a romantically and sexually
active relationship with, Mark Campbell.
Let’s see if I’ve got this straight: an organization which promotes tolerance and understanding has made a donation which has given rise to this thread that seems to get more hateful and intolerant by the post. Does that about cover it?
Here’s my view: the #1 comment I hear when the subject of religion comes up is that pew-fillers are a bunch of hypocrites. That is, “a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.” Some scholarly researcher above has considerately posted quotes alleged to be from witness publications dating back more than 50 years. They seem to be more or less consistent. I wish that scholar would do the same for half a dozen other religions: Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Presbyterians, etc. I predict that the 1952 publications of them all would be strongly anti-gay. But over the years most religions have retooled their beliefs to fit the times, while still claiming to be places to worship the god of the Bible. Plain and simple, the Bible does not endorse homosexuality. It’s just not in there. So it’s like people hate the hypocrisy they see in religion, and then when some group comes along and sticks to its founding principles, people apparently hate that too. Make up your minds, people!
And one other thing: that whole “hate the sin, not the sinner” really does sound like an empty platitude, but most of us apply it regularly in our lives. Your five-year-old carelessly spills grape KoolAid on your new white carpeting after being told to stay in the kitchen; your teenager ditches school and then gets caught shoplifting. You may hate what they did, but you don’t hate them. So it’s not only possible to hate the sin without hating the sinner; most of us do it all the time.
Dan,
An organization that promotes tolerance and understanding has made a donation which has given raise to this thread that does not seem to get
‘more hateful’ and ‘intolerant’ by the post. Does that about cover it ? Did
you get this straight ? The answer: hardly.
Here’s your ‘view’. The number one comment you hear when the subject of religion comes up is that some pew-fillers are a bunch of ‘hypocrites’ which
is true in some cases. That is to you, a person who acts in contradiction
to his or her stated beliefs are feelings, which I might add , could be wrong.
Some scholarly researcher about has considerately posted quotes alleged to be from Witless theological publications that date back more than 50 years. So fucking what? Their beliefs on homosexuality have not changed in 50 years, dumbass! You think they seem to be ‘more or less consistent’
which is not true. Their views on homosexuality in today’s world are not
any different than their views on homosexuality were 50 years ago. You wish the scholar would do the same for a half-a-dozen other christian
denominations such as the Methodistites, Lutheranites, Cathoholics and
Presbyterianites, etc. You predict that the 1952 publications of all of them
would be strongly homophobic or ‘anti-gay which is true and their all of
their views on homosexuality would also be wrong just like the Jebobah’s
Witlesses, duh! Perhaps over the years most religions retooled their beliefs
to fit the times while still claiming to be in places to worship the fictional god
of the fictional Booble. That’s their right to change their beliefs and sometimes they have to in order to keep people in their churches, duh.
It’s stupid, yes as I think people should just discard the religious text
and their negative views on homosexuality which are wrong out the door.
You said it’s ‘plain’ and ‘simple’ the fictional booble does ‘not endorse’
homosexuality. There’s no good reason for the fictional booble to
‘not endorse’ homosexuality, it should endorse homosexuality and would
if it had any sort of credibility to it, which it doesn’t. The story of Jonathanite and Davidite, though being entirely fictional seems pretty gay to me. Who throws themself on their
male friend and covers their faces with kisses and says that that the love
of that other man is better than that of a heterosexual woman? That doesn’t
so gay to you? You must be blind as I don’t see this as being something
two heterosexual male who are platonic friends would say or do to each other. Why does it matter anyways? It’s a fictional story. The characters did not exist and the events in the story never happened. It’s nothing more
than a myth. It’s an entirely fictional story, but you can believe these two
men were gay lovers if you want since the story is made-up anyway and
the whole book is subject to interpretation regardless. You say that it’s
just ‘not in there’. Well, it should be in there. You should know, Mr. Apologist for evil that there is also no condemnation of
stoning disobedient children or non-virgin brides, or killing false ‘prophet-makers’, calling non-Jewish women ‘dogs’, the holding and beating of slaves nor is there endorsement of
eating shellfish or wearing mixed-fabrics, women speaking up in church
who are ‘unclean’ if they are on their periods or give birth to daughter
nor are they able to follow Cheesus without hating and abandoning their
loved ones, so what the fuck it your goddamned point? Homosexuals don’t need the endorsement of an immoral book of desert fairytales to be who they are or do what they do which is not hurting anybody and is not wrong,
so stick that argument of your ass and shove it! It’s is like people hate the
hypocrisy they see in religion which does exist and does occur, Mr. Apologist. Some group comes along and sticks to is supposed ‘founding
principles’ which could be immoral and wrong. In the case of homosexuality
this fanatical religious group’s ‘founding principles’ are both immoral and wrong and people apparently hate that too and why shouldn’t they, Mister
Apologist. People should and need to hate the bigotry found in a religious group, even if it is the religious groups ‘personal and deeply held belief’.
Their ‘personal’ and ‘deeply-held’ beliefs can be wrong, did you ever think of that? Should we respect the views of the KKK which are also a christian
group who claim they believe their god considers blacks as ‘abominations’
and inherently inferior to heterosexuals just because it is a ‘deeply-held’
and ‘personal’ belief? No and neither should we respect the homophobic
views of some religious group that sticks to its ‘founding principles’ as their
homophobic views are wrong and hurtful. Make up, your mind, idiot!
And another thing that whole ‘hate the sin, not the sinner’ really is an empty
‘platitude’, There is no it ‘really does’ sound like. That is what it sounds like.
Most of us don’t apply it regularly in our lives as much as what you might think. A 5 year old carlessly spills grape Kool-Aid on your new white carpeting after being tolf to stay in the kitchen, but you don’t call a 5 year old
a ‘wretched sinner’ who needs to ask a dead Jewish rabbi on a stick for forgiveness for spilling juice on the floor which doesn’t do any serious long-term damage or else the dead rabbi’s daddy will punish you by throwing you
in a lake of fire or annihilate you if you don’t ask for forgiveness. You really
are a dumbass, dude. Your teenager skips school and then gets caught shoplifting which is wrong and you give them a punishment but it doesn’t last forever and you don’t threaten to kill them for all time and eternity for
what they did, that’s not the same thing as hating a group of people for
being who they are because of how they were born and doing what they do which by the way, does not
harm you in any way. The teen chose to skip school and steal something
that didn’t belong to them, they were not born that way, they intentionally chose to do something that harms them in the education and harms the business in selling the product that someone else might have wanted or needed in a negative and sometimes a long-term harmful way. They can work at the store as punishment for stealing the product
and can stay after school to catch up on their assignments, but they will
not be tormented forever or be annihilated for it as those would be immoral
punishments for a very finite crimes and it’s an entirely different circumstance from being bigoted and hateful to a minority group for how
they were born and being who they are and doing something that does not
harm you or effect they way you live your life in any kind of way. You hate
the negative think they did, but you don’t hate them. So, no it is not
possible to ‘hate the sin’ without ‘hating the sinner’. Homosexual sex is
not a ‘sin’ and lgbt people are not ‘sinners’ , so get over yourself. And no,
most of do not ‘do it all the time’. We do not threaten to torture or annihilate
people for commiting actual crimes that are finite and can be made up
which do actually hurt others and actually have a negative effect on themselves or society. So the circumstances are not the same, Mr. Buttsteak. Your religiously apology act is not very convincing. There is
nothing wrong with being lgbt or homosexuality or having gay sex with
another consenting adult of the same-gender which does not harm any one
and an act that nobody is forcing you to participate in. Go get a clue, Dan.
It’s not about “us” but about all the other LGBT lives they have destroyed. They hate us, and we want to help them?
Moon,
Exactly. It’s not about you , but about all the other lgbt lives they have indeed
destroyed. They hate you for no good reason and you want to help them?
It was nice of you to help them, but you should not agree or endorse their
homophobic, gasexophobic and anti-sexual views which are indeed wrong
and need to be ridiculed and condemned, ignored and discarded for the
nonsense that those views truly are.
After reading all these lies and hate mail I find it appauling that you say you have love for the human race. You take material written out of context. As for those that say they were gay while serving Jehovah you knew what the bible clearly states. Now that you have been disfellowhipped, you knowing this would happened when this was found out are Hippocrates. Anyone becoming a JW knows about disfellowhipping and what happens. If you didn’t want that then you shouldn’t have become a JW. Also what is taught that only those that do Jehovah’s will can be saved. That means there could be some JW’s that may not live if they are not doing Jehovah’s will. Also, those that have died and paid the penalty of sin will be resurrected as well not matter what their beliefs were and will be given a chance to conform to Jehovah’s standards.
MC,
These are not ‘lies’ and ‘hate mail’. You find it appalling that they say they have
love for the human race. They never said they agreed with your homophobic
bigotry and they shouldn’t. They did no take your church’s written material
‘out-of-context’. Maybe a little out-of-date, but it does describe what your
church accurately believed and does believe even though what you believe
on some things is fucked up. You said for that those said they were gay
while serving your fictional god knew what the fictional bible ‘clearly states’.
Well, what the fictional booble ‘clearly states’ is wrong. Now that they have
been excommunicated knowing this would happen when this was found
out they are not hypocrites. They were excommunicated just
for being who they were born to be and engaging in an activity that is entirely
between two consenting adults which is not harming anyone. That doesn’t
make their excommunication ‘right’. I think it is quite wrong , bigoted , hateful and even immoral. Anyone becoming an initiated member of the Jebobah’s Witless Church knows about excommunication and what happens even
though it is usually wrong and not for logical or valid reasons in every case.
If they didn’t want that then they shouldn’t have become a member of the
bigoted Jebobah’s Witless Church. Who wants to be a member of a homophobic church anyways if they are lgbt or gay as that’s just nuts! You
preach that is is taught in your denomination that ‘only’ those that do your
god’s ‘will’ can be ‘saved’. Saved from what? Being a human being who has flaws and makes mistakes who tries to be a good person. It is your god’s
will for you to hold and beat slaves, burn prostitutes, stone disobedient children
and non-virgin brides to death, call non-Jewish woman ‘dogs’ and abandon
and hate their loved ones in order to be a follower of Cheesus? Hmmm. It’s
written in your book of fairytales and you believe it is the ‘inerrant word’ of
your deity and you believe in taking your book of fairytales literally, so why
don’t you act on these beliefs in a literal fashion then? Your just as much
of a hypocrite , if not more than the people you accuse of being hypocritical,
so don’t be so self-righteous. I don’t believe in your concept of being ‘saved’
nor do I believe in the ‘will’ of your fictional god. Nor would I believe that ‘only’
the people who are doing your god’s ‘will’ can be ‘saved’ if they led a good
and mora life and especially if your god’s supposed ‘will’ is immoral which I personally think it is. You say those that have
died and payed the ‘penalty’ of ‘sin’ will be ‘resurrected’ as well, and it
does not matter what their beliefs were as they will be given a chance to
conform to your god’s ‘standards’. I don’t believe that there is a ‘pentality
of sin’ to be payed and I don’t believe they will be ‘resurrected’ in order
to be given a chance to conform to your god’s ‘standards’ which I find
to be immoral. I find some of your god’s ‘standards’ to be bigoted , hateful,
and immoral and I think that nobody
should ‘conform’ to them.
MC,
If any lgbt person didn’t want that then they shouldn’t have become a JW
as they need to accept themselves and find a same-sex lover.
No lgbt person should become a JW and if they didn’t want that homophobia then they shouldn’t have become a JW and should
be accepting of themselves and find a same-sex person to
love to romantically and be sexually active with. No matter what their
beliefs were. No matter what their beliefs which are better than the JW’s
bullshittery.
“… and will be given a chance to conform to Jehovah’s standards.”~MC
The above belief system can only be found in the Watchtower publications and is not available from the scriptures.
That is what makes this fairly recent sect about as truth filled as the Mormon Church.
Alex, It is quite obvious you don’t read the Bible. The only sects are those of Christendom. JW’s are really the only one that follow the Bibles counsel. I could go on and on but is clear you don’t want to hear the Truth.
MC,
How would you know whether or non he has read your fictional Booble.
You say the ‘only’ sects are those of ‘Christenitedom’. The Jebobah’s Witlesses are apart of Christendom , whether they like it or not and they
are just another sect to me. JW’s are not really the ‘only’ one’s that follow
the fictional Booble’s ‘counsel’. You could go ‘on and on’ and but it is
clear that he doesn’t want to listen to you preach and he and I don’t
believe we are hearing the ‘truth’. Every other single denomination
of Christianity including the Jebobah’s Witlesses think that they are
the only was with the ‘most correct’ and ‘true’ interpretation of the Booble
and that all others are ‘wrong’ and are being misled by a fictional devil
character and his fictional demons are going to be tormented for eternity
or annihilated for being ‘false christians’ . You can capitalize the word
‘truth’ , all you want, MC. It doesn’t make the JW Church ‘true’ just
because you want it to be ‘true’ and claim to ‘know’ that it is ‘true’
and capitalizing the word ‘true’ does not make the JW Church anymore
‘true’. I don’t believe the JW Church is ‘true’. The Jebobah’s Witlesses
cherry-pick the booble to make it read whatever they want it to read
and whatever ‘counsel’ they want it to have just like every other Christian
denomination. I believe the booble’s ‘counsel’ is wrong and not very
good advice and it should not be followed. You are cherry-picking by
not stoning disobedient kids and non-virgin brides or those who make
‘prophecies’ that don’t come true to death, calling
non-Jewish women ‘dogs’ and referring to your mother outside of
her name like Cheesus did to his mother nor do you stop eating shellfish
or quit wearing mixed-fabrics; consider women to be ‘unclean’ for having
their periods or when they give birth to a daughter or create a punishment for them speaking up in church or holding ‘authority’ of
any kind over a man; you must sell your daughter into slavery and
beat the slaves that you hold; you must burn prostitutes to death
even if she is your own daughter; kill all those who belong to other
religions and of no religion; you must abandon and hate your loved
ones in order to be a follower of Cheesus and kill all the cities
of those your god doesn’t like and annihilate all of the inhabitants
including both the unborn and unborn children, every animal,
teenage boy , man and women and keep all of the young virgin girls
for yourself as a bride. If you do not literally act on of these beliefs
then you are a cherry-picking hypocrite. A bigoted cherry-picking hypocrite that is! There is nothing
wrong with homosexuality and there is nothing wrong with having gay
sex with another consenting adult. The Jebobah’s Witlesses are just
as much apart of Christendom as every other denomination that calls
themselves ‘ Christians’. Your religion is not ‘true’ to me and is
not ‘true’ at all because you don’t have any conclusive, substantial
and undeniable evidence to back up the claims of your false religion.
No a book of fairytales that has been rewritten and translated countless
times and is subject to any interpretation that you want it to be read
does not count as ‘proof’ as the claims in the book have also not been
‘proven’ to have happened and there is nothing to ‘prove’ that they
will happen at all’. So take that bit of my preaching and suck on it!
Alex,
The above christian belief system can only be found in the Washtowel publications and is not available from the Big Book of Judaicist and Christianite Fairytales from the Saudi Arabian Desert. Some of the beliefs
may be based on their desert fairytale book, but I don’t believe any of their beliefs ortheir fairytale desert book are true anyways. I agree that
this fairly recent denomination of Christianity is about as ‘truth-filled’
as the Mormonic Church. Neither the Jebobahs’ Witless or Mormonic Churches are ‘true’. At least to me they’re not. The Jebobah’s Witlesses
and the Mormonics are both false religions in my eyes just like every other
christian denomination is false to me.
“JW’s are really the only one that follow the Bibles counsel. I could go on and on but is clear you don’t want to hear the Truth.”~MC
Lets see now. For almost two thousand years, no one followed the Bibles counsel. Then in 1879, Charles Taze Russell, (a high school drop out), started the Watch Tower. And so the Truth was born. Yea right.
All you and other JW’s do MC is spew out words without backing anything up.
I guess when you are expected to go to 5 brain washing meetings a week and only read about the Watchtower Society and its goings on from official JW sources then the wool can be pulled over your and anyone else’s eyes.
So in conclusion I would suggest that you start going on before you claim to end your comments, because in truth you have not said anything at all.
Your sect is a high control group, that only has members because they are afraid of being shunned by family and friends. Still there are great numbers leaving every year.
The Watchtower doesn’t impress when one digs a little below the glossy surface you try to put on.
Alex,
Yes. For 2000 years , no one ‘accurately’ followed the fictional Booble’s
‘counsel’. Then in 1879, Charredballs Tazer Rusticle who was a high school
drop out started the Washtowel Society. Then the ‘truth’ which you must spell out with a capital T, was born. Yeah right. Just because you claim your religion is the ‘truth’ with a capitol T does not make you religion
‘true’ just because you want it to be true and capitalize the T. All MC and
other Jebobah’s Witlesses can do is spew out words without backing anything up with substantial, conclusive and undeniable evidence. Books
of Desert Fairytales don’t count. You guess when they are expected to go
to five brainwashing church services a week and only read about the
Washtowel Society and it’s vies and going-ons from official Jebobah’s Witless Church sources then the wool can be pulled over his and anyone
else’s eyes very easily. So in conclusion, you eould suggest that he start
going on before he claims to end his comments, because in truth he
has not said anything at all. I agree. He can only quote from his book
of Desert Fairytales and his Church’s publications and that i all that he
can really do.
His sect is a high-control fundamentalist group that only has members because they are afraid of being shunned by their family and friends.
Still, there are great numbers leaving every year which is true and thank
goodness but that’s doesn’t mean they won’t join some other fundamentalist
religious group of fanatics. I agree that the Washtowel doesn’t impress
at all really once a person digs a little below the ‘glossy’ surface that they
try to put on. The surface isn’t really ‘glossy’ at all.
After reading these comments, I do see that most people commenting do not like Jehovah’s Witnesses. Apparently, there is not much we can do about that. I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is as difficult for me to understand why a person is gay and I can understand how people cannot understand the witnesses.
Frances Kinloch,
You said that after reading those comments, you do see most people commenting do not like the Jebobah’s Witlesses. Apparently, there is not
much that you can do about that, that is true. You cannot do anything about it.
It isn’t we have anything against you as a person, it’s just we don’t agree
with some of your beliefs. We think your views about homosexuality are
wrong and do having something against the homophobic beliefs of your
Church, but we have nothing against you as a person. You are a Jebobah’s
Witless. It is as difficult for you to understand ‘why’ a person is gay and you
can understand how people ‘cannot understand’ the Witlesses. You should
know that gay people are born gay, that is why gay people are gay because
they were born gay. It’s not the people ‘cannot understand’ the Witlesses,
it just that some of us don’t agree with your beliefs. This includes not
agreeing with your beliefs about homosexuality or same-sex relationships
as we see your views on this issue is being wrong. That is not an attack
on you as your person, just your belief system that we find to be strange
and untrue. See and learn the difference now, dearie?
Robots are programmed and only output the input that has been processed. So Jw’s ask what has been processed a translated bible, not transliterated,(big difference) watchtowers from a doomed point of view frequently often non-stop for generations… For what? To save lives? OR the more tempting motive money control and power?
Admit it expedite the denial process and move Forward please then the resurrection can start families can unite old friends can join hands people can freely choose without obligation your jw foretold: Freedom of Will member dat?
Duowlshduke,
Robots are programmed and only output the input that has been processed
into them. So the Jebobah’s Witlesses aks whas been processed a ‘translated’
booble, not transliterated, as their is a big difference from the Washtowels
from a ‘doomed point of view’ frequently , often and non-stop for generations… For what? To ‘save’ lives? Or the mor tempting motive to make money,
gain control and have power.
I believe the JW’s ‘translated’ booble is wrong and their magazines
‘doomed point of view ‘ is also wrong to me.
They should admit it, so they can expediate the denial process and move forward and then the fictional ‘resurrection’ can start and families can reunite
with old friends and they can join hands which is a crock of shit. People
can freely choose without obligation to their JW ‘foretold’: ‘Freedom of ‘will
remember that dat?
I don’t believe in their fictional ‘resurrection’ and don’t believe it will
ever happen. I don’t believe they can ‘start’ families after their fictional
‘resurrection’ as I don’t believe their ‘resurrection’ is ever going to happen
nor do I believe they will be ‘reunited’ with old friends whom they can join
hands with. That is just fanatasy-thinking. When your dead, chances
are your dead for good. No earthly paradise, no annihilation and
no ‘resurrection’. Just death itself and the memories your loved ones
have of you and that’s it. They cannot ‘ freely’ choose without
being obligated to their JW ‘foretold’. I believe the JW ‘foretold’ is
wrong. I don’t believe in the JW concept of ‘freedom of will’ as I
think the JW concept of ‘freedom of will ‘ is wrong.
I mean to also say that I also don’t believe the Witlesses ‘save ‘ lives. There’s nothing to
be ‘saved ‘ from. I don’t believe in the ‘end of the world’ propaganda
and I don’t believe that ‘everyone’ except them is ‘killed’ by their god.
I don’t believe they ‘save’ lives because there is nothing to ‘save’ people
from.
Hoping that I can marry my man Hans Schmidt, Sr. whenever my state allows same sex marriages. We’re tired of hiding our feelings, I was once a JW but got disfellowshipped because I was gay. It hurts!!
Mike Webre, Frank’s Casing Crew,
I hope you can marry your man , Hans Schmidt Sr. too, whenever your state
allows civil same-sex marrieges. You’re tired of hiding your feelings and
you shouldn’t have to hide who you guys really are. You were once a JW
but got excommunicated because you were gay. It hurts you and I’m so sorry for your pain!! I am glad that you accept yourself as a gay man
and have a boyfriend who loves you romantically and sexually and I’m
sure one day you will be able to legally marry him. You , two men deserve
to marry each other.
http://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/open-letter-from-the-children-of-jehovahs-witnesses-to-the-governing-body-of-jehovahs-witnesses/
Link above takes you to an Open letter from the children of Jehovah witnesses to the governing body ofJW.
The governing body are more concerned with money than they are with helping children within their own religion.
Opi,
The link above takes you to an open letter from the children of the Jebobah’s
Witlesses to the Church Leaders of the Jebobah’s Witlesses.
The Church Leaders are more concerned with money than they are with helping children within their religion. Sad, but true.
I find it so interesting that so many non-Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to THINK they know so much about them. I was raised a JW and so much of what you think you know is wrong. JW’s don’t vote and don’t get involved in politics unless it involves them, meaning unless they have to fight for their right to practice their religion. And as far as not being allowed to talk to a gay relative, that is wrong – it’s left entirely up to the family if they want to associate with them or not! I think the LGBT is awesome to contribute to this cause and shows that they are the ‘bigger’ people in all this. Leave the Witnesses (and other religions) in peace and get your own life!
Marie,
You find it so interesting that so many non-Jebobah’s Witlesses seem to ‘think’
they know so much about them. You were raised as a Jebobah’s Witless and
so much of what they think they know is ‘wrong’. JW’s don’t vote and
don’t get involved in politics unless it involves them, meaning unless
they have to fight for their right to practice their religion as they see
fit, though I don’t agree with their ‘reasons’. As far as not being allowed
to talk to a gay relative, that is ‘wrong’ , you say. It’s left entirely up
to the family if they want to talk to them or not. If the family doesn’t
talk to them than they are a bunch of homophobic bigots! You think
the lgbt community is awesome to contribute to this cause and shows
they are indeed the bigger people in all of this. I don’t have to leave the
Witlesses and other religions in peace and get my own life, not when
their being a bunch of homophobic twats! I don’t agree with their homophobic religious views. Don’t put the word ‘bigger’ in quotations
as the lgbt community is being the bigger person in all this as they didn’t
refuse to help these people just for being religious fanatics even though they don’t agree with their homophobic religious beliefs.
Isn’t it interesting how those who oppose Jehovah’s Witnesses never point you to the real source of Bible based truth?
They may point people to another religious organization, but never do those organizations fit the Bible’s description of true Christianity, such as:
A united worldwide organization, preaching the good news of God’s kingdom, on their own time and with their own “dime”, who although hated without just cause, are politically neutral and would never take up arms against their neighbors.
Yes, it’s true: There’s only one organization, and one alone, which fits the Bible’s definition of true Christianity: Jehovah’s Witnesses.
No one can prove otherwise.
AlAnon,
You said isn’t it interesting how those who ‘oppose’ the Jebobah’s Witlesses
never point others to the ‘real source’ of fictional Booble-based ‘truth’.
You said that they may point to people to another religious organization,
but you say ‘never’ do those other religious organizations ‘fit’ the fictional
Booble’s description of ‘true’ Christianity as such having a ‘united worldwide’
institution , preaching what they think is the ‘good news’ of their fictional
god’s fictional kingdom on their ‘own time’ and with their own dime
who although claim they are ‘hated’ without ‘just cause’ are politically
neutral and would ‘never’ take up arms against their neighbors.
You claim it’s ‘true’: There’s ‘only one’ religious institution’, and ‘one alone’,
which fits the fictional Booble’s definition of you think is
‘true’ Christianitism: The Jebobah’s Witlesses .
You also say ‘no one’ can ‘prove otherwise’. I can prove otherwise, but it isn’t
my place. You are the one claiming your christian denomination is
the ‘one and only ‘ depiction of what you call ‘true ‘ christianitism
and it is up to you to prove that is ‘true’, but I personally believe
it is false.
Look, asshat. Just because someone disagrees with your religious views
does not mean they are ‘opposed ‘ to you. You can believe in whatever fantasy you choose, but I don’t have to like it , believe in it or agree with it. I don’t believe there is such a thing as Booblical-based ‘truth’. I think the Booble is entirely fictional. No one needs to point to a ‘real source’. I
don’t believe there is a ‘real source’ to your so-called booblical-based
‘truth’ which is also fictional to me. The JWs are hardly the only ‘united
worldwide religious institution’ in the world. You preach your ‘good news’
which isn’t really all that good or moral. Who wants to be told by a bunch
of bible and magazine-thumping nutcases that if they
don’t join your church that their god will annihilate them while you will end up living on an earthly paradise to play with snakes and lions although they
might be ‘resurrected’ again and given a second chance to ‘conform’ to
their god’s ‘will ‘ along with those who were devout to their church and
those who never heard of this religion and all the ‘evil’ people
will be killed by their god and stay dead for all eternity and 144,000
members and leaders of the church will be chosen to rule with this
deity in the sky over the rest of those who live on the newly restored planet. That about cover it? I see nothing ‘good’ about this ‘news’ you ‘preach’
as you can make promises but you cannot really guarantee these promises
will come true to naive people interested in joining your church. Yes,
they use their own money and that’s good. You are not ‘hated ‘ without
‘just cause’. Some people just don’t agree with you or your beliefs. Disagreement does not equal hatred, dude. You are politically neutral
and would not take up guns against their fellow neighbors. This is only
partially good except that I think you have the right to defend your country
from those who seek to harm, even the fictional Booble has the ancient Jews
defend their country from those they believed would want to ‘harm ‘ them.
I don’t agree with political ‘neutrality’ when people’s civil rights are being
taken away. People should be politically active when it comes to protecting
their civil rights and I believe this whole-heartedly. I don’t believe in political
‘neutrality’ and see some harms associated with it.
Your christianite denomination is not accepted or believed to be’true’ by everyone in the world. I don’t believe there is ‘only one’
and ‘one alone’ religious institution that ‘fits’ the fictional Booble’s ‘definition’
of ‘true christianity’. I don’t believe any of the christianite denominations
are ‘true’. I don’t believe the Jebobah’s Witlesses are ‘true’. I think Jebobah’s Witlesses are false just as much as I think all other christianite denominations
are false. I don’t believe any religious institution fits’ or can fit the fictional
Booble’s ‘definition’ of ‘true’ christianitism because I think all religious organizations which does include the Jebobah’s Witlesses that call themselves ‘Christianite’ are all false. I don’t believe the Booble has
a ‘definition’ of ‘true’ christianitism. I don’t believe there is such a thing
as ‘true’ christianitism. I think every and any kind of christianitism is false.
I don’t believe in such a thing as a ‘real source’ of Booblical- based ‘truth’.
I don’t believe the Booble has any ‘based truth’. In fact, I don’t believe
the Booble is ‘true’ at all. The Booble is nothing more than a fictional book of desert fairytales to me. These people can point to another religious institution
and say it’s ‘true’ as every christianite religious institution considers themselves
to be ‘true’ and all others are ‘wrong’ and are under the control of a fictional
characters called a devil and demons who don’t exist and are being led away
from ‘worshipping’ the abrahamitic god is the ‘correct’ way. You claim
that ‘never’ do these religious groups fit the booble’s ‘definition’ of ‘true’
christianitsm. I don’t believe these religious group’s fit the booblical
‘definition’ of ‘true ‘ christianitism’ either. I also don’t believe that the
Church of the Jebobah’s Witlesses are the Booblical ‘definition’ of
‘true’ christianitism either. I don’t believe christianistism is ‘true’ at all.
There other ‘united worldwide’ religious institutions that preach the
‘good news’ of the booblical god’s fictional kingdom , but I believe they
are false. The Fundamentalist Christian Church of the Jebobah’s Witless
Denomination may be a ‘united worldwide religious institution’ that ‘preach’
the ‘news’ of their fictional god’s fictional ‘kingdom’ which I don’t believe
will come into existence. Nor do I believe the ‘news’ is all that ‘good’.
I don’t believe their ‘good news’ is actually ‘good’ nor do I think of it as
being ‘moral’. Nor is their ‘news’ all that new. I don’t think their
‘news’ is all that new. 2000 years is a long time. The Jebobah’s Witlesses
and many other christianite denominations claim to be the ‘one and only’
group that fit their fairytale book’s ‘definition’ of ‘true’ christianitism and I
think that the Jebobah’s Witless Church and all of these many other christianite
denominations that claim to be the ‘one and only’ group that ‘fits’ their
fairytale book’s ‘definition’ of ‘true’ christianitism are all false. You can
say and convice yourself that it is ‘true’ , but you don’t have any solid,
substantial, conclusive and undeniable evidence that the JW Church
or your religious text are ‘true’. I believe the Booble and the JW church
are both fictional and do not have any sort of ‘truth’, but that’s just how
I feel.
A plea to ANYONE studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses or has a family member who may convert to become one: RESEARCH this religion and put a stop to it asap. This religion will tear your family apart. DO NOT accept what the JW’s tell you at face value – look up information and their history of changing beliefs, how they treat people who disagree with them, how they deal/don’t deal with pedophiles within their organization, and discourage higher education.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have a higher suicide rate than the normal population – for good reason, they cut you off from the “world” and then shun you if you question anything. You have no network of support if you leave, no friends. PLEASE research them if you know ANYONE interested or involved.
wish you would stick to the facts. where do you expect people to get the facts? wikipedia and youtube?
Naz,
Wish they’d stick to the ‘facts’ which they did. Where do they expect
people to get the ‘facts’. From the church’s own sources and ex-jw
sources. Wikipedia and youtube are good too.
Tonic,
This a plea for those going through the process of becoming a Jebobah’s
Witless or has a family member who may convert into the church to become
a member. Research this religion and put a stop to it asap. This religion
will tear you family apart. Do not accept what the JW’s tell you at face value. Look up information and their history of beliefs they have changed and how they treat people who disagree with them and how they don’t
deal with pedophiles in their church and discourage higher education.
Jebobah’s Witlesses have a higher suicide rate than the normal population
and for good reason as they cut you off from the rest of the world and then
shun you if you questioning anything once you are offically baptized into
the church. You will have no support network if you leave, no friends
and no family. Please research their church if you know anyone interested
or involved.
I’m Vernon J. Bouligny, innovation tubular inventor at Frank’s Casing Crew and Rental Tools. I am extremely gay and I think religion should stay away from my decision to live and love as a queer. I applaud anyone who can stand as I am with my employer. I have yet to tell my son and maybe I can get some pointers. I’m also going to resign from my job and dedicate my life to helping fight gay bullying. Love y’all!!!
Vernon J. Bouligny,
You are an innovation tubular inventor at Frank’s Casing Crew and Rental Tools. You are extremely gay and you think religion should stay away from your decision to live and love as a queer. You applaud anyone who can stand as you do with your employer. You have yet to tell your son and maybe you can get some pointers. You are also going to resign from your
job and dedicate your life to helping fight gay bulling. Love ya.
Hope it works out and you tell your son and he will accept you.
I also hope you have a boyfriend who loves you.
Having been brought up in the WTBTS [Jehovah’s Witnesses] in the UK, I decided to confide to my parents that I had feelings for a person of the same gender. I was told to go away and study the Watchtower and see what it said. I did and it confirmed my worst fears.
A week later I was called into what was then known as “The Presiding Overseeer’s” office [the library at the Kingom Hall] and was told that I would be called to a committee meeting where I would be asked to answer charges that had been laid against me.
It appeared that my parents had been to the PO and asked for help and advice in talking to me about the subject. Instead of offering help, he decided that I needed to be “examined” as to my thoughts and feelings on the subject and as a result of this I was grilled for 4 hours by these three men who wanted to know if I masturbated and if so how many times a day. What thoughts I had whilst masturbating and did it involve other people.
I was nearly16 yrs old and still at school yet they decided in “their wisdom” that although I had never engaged in Homosexuality, I was a moral danger to the other young men in the congregation. I was disfellowshipped. I had done nothing to warrent this yet later on when I had left school, I was told to leave home as I was no longer a “worshipper” of the True God Jehovah. If I repented and was re-admitted into fellowship again, then and only then could I return home.
How could I repent of something I had not done? I never went back and have had zero contact with my family in 25 yrs. I still live in the same town as they do and often see my parents and family members in the street yet they cross over onto the other side. If I am in the same shop as them, they will leave their shopping and go out of the shop. I have NO ill will or thoughts towards them. They are controlled in their thinking and to be honest if the situation was reversed and I was a JW and they had left, I would be forced to do the same thing.
JW’s would disagree and say that they have the freedom to choose their actions towards me. Yes they do BUT if they choose to associate with me, they will suffer the same fate as me.
BTW I am not Homosexual but a happily married individual. Most teenagers go through a period of self doubt, I did and lost my family through it.
XJW,
You were brought up in the Jebobah’s Witless Church in the UK, and decided to confide to your parents that you had feelings for a person of the same gender. You were wrongly told to go away and study the Washtowel and see what was written in it. Ypu did and it ‘confirmed ‘your worst fears.
A week later You wertr called into what was then known as Congregational
officer’s room in the library at the Church and was told that you would be called to a church court where you would be asked to answer ‘charges’ that had been wrongly laid ‘against’ you.
It appeared that your parents had been to the PO and asked for some weird form of ‘help and advice’ in talking to you about the subject. Instead of offering ‘help’, he decided that you needed to be “examined” as to your harmless thoughts and feelings on the subject and as a result of this you were grilled for 4 hours by these three men who wanted to know if you masturbated and if so how many times a day. What thoughts you had whilst masturbating and did it involve other people. Jesus fucking Christ!
That church must be filled with perverts! They asked you about your
being gay which harms no one and about you masturbating which
harms no one and is really none of their business. What a bunch of
fucking perverted creeps the JW church pastors are!
You were nearly16 yrs old and still at school yet they decided in “their wisdom” that although you had never engaged in Homosexuality which you
should be doing now as engaging in homosexuality with another consenting adult of the same gender hurts no one, You were labeled a ‘moral danger’ to the other young men in your congregation. You were not
and are not a ‘moral danger. You were excommunicated. You had done nothing to warrent this yet later on when you had left school, you were told to leave home as you were no longer a “worshipper” of the ‘true god’ of the fictional Booble whome the Witless Church calls ‘Jebobah’. ‘Jebobah’ is
not the ‘true’ god as he doesn’t exist. Jebobah is a false god. If you ‘repented’ and was re-admitted into church membership again, then and only then could I return home. You had nothing to ‘repent’ of as there
is nothing wrong with being gay or having gay sex.
How could you ‘repent’ of something uoi had not done that you could have
done and should be doing since it harms no one. You never went back and have had zero contact with your bigoted family in 25 yrs. You still live in the same town as they do and often see your parents and family members in the street yet they cross over onto the other side which shows just how immature and how hateful your homophobic family is. Fuck them! Who needs their bigoted asses ! If you are in the same shop as them, they will leave their shopping and go out of the shop which shows you they are
not all that secure in their beliefs. You have NO ill will or thoughts towards them. They are controlled in their thinking and to be honest if the situation was reversed and you were a JW and they had left, you would be forced to do the same thing which is totally and entirely wrong and is not an excusable thing to do at all.
The JW’s would disagree and say that they have the freedom to choose their actions towards you which is not entirely true. Yes, they do buy if they choose to associate with you they will suffer the same fate as you by being
excommunicated and shunned by the Church.
You have said that you are ‘not’ a homosexual, but that you are a
‘happily married’ individual which I don’t believe in. You just said you
had same-sex attraction. I still think your wrongly denying who you truly
are. If you are a gay man than you need to divorce that woman and
get in a romantically and sexually active relationship with another man.
If you are a lesbian woman than you need to divorce that man and get
in a romantically and sexually active relationship with another woman. I don’t agree with you that ‘most’ teenagers go through a period of ‘self -doubt’ over their sexuality as most teenagers look to accept their sexuality
if they are gay, lesbian or bisexual as you should have done. I don’t think
you went through ‘self-doubt’ over your sexuality but I do think you might have doubted about your religion and should have doubted over its wrong
views on homosexuality and lost your family through it.
The Washtowel should not have ‘confirmed’ your worst fears as there is
nothing wrong with homosexuality or having gay sex. The fictional Washtowel has no reason to ‘confirm’ fears about homosexuality
or gay sex as there is nothing wrong with either of these things and
they don’t hurt anybody.
disfellowshipped for masterbating? you sure?
Naz,
He shouldn’t have been excommunicated for masturbating as masturbation
does not hurt anyone. It’s perfectly normal and natural just like gay sex.
Yes, he’s sure.
Very true Tonic, and may I add this ?
There are non devoted jws “Publishers” that do go door to door too. They can get you converted while they themselves exit the religion. But those people are still coming to your doors.
There are Jws that do know that the religion is false but they trap themselves because of their families. But those people are still coming to your doors.
There are Jws that do not live by their cultish lifehood but they still have the audacity to try to judge us “worldly people”. And the majority of the teens in there are all jackasses like the adults. When you join,there’s a good chance that you will have make friends with your local fanatic peers or you will have to isolate yourself. But those people are still coming to your doors.
You should check these jws out on social network sites such as Youtube and Facebook. You will find them participating in holidays. They will text key words “happy birthday””Happy Mother’s days” Merry Chirstmas” or on youtube the guys would watch butty butty shaking videos. But those people are still coming to your doors.
You guys are encouraging that fashionable cult to continue on their destructive quest. Their issue is found in the bible. It’s in Leviticus 18:22 and 1 Corinthians 6:9. But that doesn’t excuse them for being a bunch of deceivers and destructive manipulative morons. But those people are still coming to your doors.
Manipulation is very very dangerous. Those people flap flop their works and words in such a way that you would want hurt someone. You can’t debate with them you to wrote to write a book for them so that they can understand. This kind of work requires serious research for both sides. Every thing that they publish is copyright including their bibles. The odd part is that, those people blame their former jws for their own negative works. Instead being logical and have the Watchtower sue their websites… they would rather call them names. But those jws are still coming to your doors.
This cult will destroy your family if one of your family members decides to join it. They will either nag you to get you join them or you will lose them in rejection. I lost my wife not because she join the religion. It was because she put that man C,T,R religion before me. Put up your NO TRUST-PASSING SIGNS because those jws are still making a second round for your relatives.
IMEG,
What Tonic said is true and may you add that:
There are non-devoted JWs proselytizers that do go door- to door- too. They can get a person converted while they themselves exit the religion. But those people are still coming to folks doors.
There are JW’s that do know that the religion is false but they trap themselves because of their families. But those people are still coming to folks doors.
There are JW’s that do not live by their cultish lifehood but they still have the audacity to try to judge the non-members of their church. And the majority of the teens in there are all jackasses just like the adults. When a person joins there is a good chance that they will have make friends with their local fanatic peers or they will have to isolate themselves. But those people are still coming to folks doors.
You say people should check the JW’s out on social network sites such as Youtube and Facebook. You say they will find them participating in holidays. The members of the church will text key words “Happy Birthday”! or ”Happy Mother’s Day” or “Merry Christmas” or on youtube the men of the church would watch behind- shaking videos. But those people are still coming to folks doors.
You have said everyone else is encouraging this fashionable cult to continue on their destructive quest. Their wrid ‘issue’ is ‘found in’ the fictional Booble. You’ve said it’s in the fictional books of Leviticusite and the fictional book of
the 1 Corinthianites which are both wrong about homosexuality and
gay sex. If a man lies with another man as with a woman, neither of
them have not commited an ‘abomination’. Homosexuality is not an
‘abomination’. The other one is about men who lie with other men ‘not
inheriting’ the fictional ‘kingdom’ of the fictional Booblical god. Men who have
sex with other men would be more likely to inherit than kingdom of this
god if he was truly a moral and good supernatural being than a bunch
of bigoted religiouz zealots. Ys that doesn’t excuse them for being a bunch of deceivers and destructive manipulative morons or may I add, from being a
bunch of homophobic and gaysexophobic bigots either! But those people are still coming to folks doors.
Manipulation is very very dangerous. Those people flip-flop their works and words in such a way that a person would want hurt someone. No one can debate with them so they would have to write a book for them so that they can understand. This kind of work requires serious research from both sides. Every thing that they publish is copyright including their fictional Boobles. The odd part is that, those people blame their former membersfor their own negative works. Instead being logical and have the Washtowel sue their websites… they would rather call them names which is indeed immature. But those JW’s are still coming to folks doors.
This cult will destroy a person’s family if one of their family members decides to join it. They will either nag them to get the non-member of the church in their
family to join them or they will lose them in rejection. You lost your wife not because she joined the religion. It was because she put that man Chardballs Tazer Rustle religion before you. People should put up their NO TRUST-PASSING SIGNS because those JW’s are still making a second round for folks relatives.
IMEG,
Their ‘issue’ that is ‘found’ in their book of fairytales is wrong about
homosexuality and gay sex. Their fairytale book is wrong about homosexuality and gay sex. The fictional books of Leviticusite and
the 1st book of the Corinthianites are both wrong about homosexuality
and gay sex. I hope you don’t agree with those texts as that would
make you just as much of a homophobic bigot as they are. There is
no reason for either of these two passages which are both wrong and
irrelevant nor any of the others in their fictional religious book of desert fairytales which are also wrong to ‘condemn’ homosexuality or gay sex. Homosexuality and gay sex do not harm anyone and who gives a flying shit what their book of fairytales think about homosexuality or gay
sex as their book of religious fairytales from the desert is wrong about
homosexuality and gay sex. I’m sorry about your wife. That was her
choice. If you don’t like it than divorce her. If you agree with their
religious ‘reasons’ for looking down on homosexuals and other lgbt
people and their dehumanization of same-sex relationships which
involve romantic and sexual activity which are harmless than you are just as much of a bigot as they are. I don’t care what you , the JW Church
or their religiousbook of desert fairytales think or say about homosexuality or same-sex relationships, IMEG, I think that you and the JW Church as well your religious texts are wrong about homosexuality and same-sex relationships and that’s all there is to it.
The Booble also condones the holding and beating of slaves, the subjegation of women by men, stoning disobedient kids, non-virgin brides, those who make ‘prophecies’ that never come true , those who follow non-abrahamic religions or burn prostitutes to death! Why don’t
you and the JW church act on those beliefs? Do you consider women who are on their periods who give birth to a daughter as being ‘unclean’? Do you call non-Jewish women ‘dogs’ or call your mother out of her name like Cheesus Chrust did? Would you hate and abandon your loved ones in order to be a follower of Cheesus? Do you know this desert fairytale book also ‘forbids’ the eating of shellfish, the wearing of mixed-fabrics, women speaking up in church and men shaving their beards. Do you or the JW Church abide by these ‘rules’, IMEG? If not, than you and the
JW Church are a bunch of cherry-picking hypocritcal bigots!
Oh Please, sympathy for the poor widdle Jehovah’s Witnesses. A multi billion dollar publishing cult and some people felt bad about their building being burnt down. The arsonist did us a favor. This cult has destroyed lives with the wanton callousness of their false doctrine and disillusioned leadership. Myself being not only a victim I also am an abuse survivor. They are a pedophile paradise and you will find zero empathy for them from my corner.
Mark Palo,
You said that it’s ridiculous showing sympathy for the poor widdle Jebobah’s
Witlesses. A multi-billion dollar publishing cult and some people felt bad about
their building being burned down. I disagree with you that the arsonist did us
a favor. The arsonist was wrong just as the JW church is wrong about its
prejudiced views towards lgbt and their dehumanization of romantically
and sexually active relationships between two cosenting men or two consenting women. This cult has destroyed lives with their wanton callousness of their doctrines which I also agree is false and their disillusioned leadership. You are not only a victim but are also an abuse survivor. Their
are a pedophile paradise just like the Cathoholic Church, the Mormonic
Church and other fundamentalist religious institutions. You hold zero
empathy for them in your corner. Fine. I hold zero agreement with their
lax actions on punishing child molesters and their homophobic views.
I do think that the victims of child molestation should sue the JW Church
and recieve some sort of financial compensation due to the sufferings
brought on by the victims of these heinous crimes.
That is nice of the lgbt community to help out a religious group even if
you don’t agree with its fundamentalist views.
Michael Jackson’s mom’s a homophobic bitch from the JW Church who
thinks her fictional book of fairytales ‘condemns’ homosexuality
and insists that Michael couldn’t have been gay because he was
a christianite which is untrue as he could of been gay and could
have had sex with other men. Her fictional Book of desert fairytales
has no reason to ‘condemn’ homosexuality and two men or two women being
in a romantically and sexually active relationship with each other is
okay. Prince is a member of the JW Church and
was gonna fire two female band members who were in a romantically and
sexually active relationship with each other unless they ‘broke up’.
I hope those two women stayed together and continued having a
romantically and sexually active relationship with each other and
stopped hanging around Prince the Purple homophobic Dickhead. Fuck
Prince
and Michael Jackson’s mother who is a fat, ugly, greedy, selfish,
self-absorbed mooch and a homophobic bigoted bitch!
Michael Jackson could have been gay even if he was a christianite and could
have had romantically and sexually active relationships with other men.
Two men or two women have every right to be in a romantically and sexually active relationships with each other and rleigiously indentify Jebobah’s Witlesses as long as they don’t attend services.
lgbt members of the JW’s who are in romantically and sexually active
relationships with another consenting adult of the same-gender or have had a gender identity reassignment
change should join the A Common Bond support group for lgbt ex-jw’s.
Lgbt individuals and same-sex couples in a romantically and sexually active relationships with another consenting adult of the same-gender or those
who have gotten and successfully completed a gender identity reassignment change that identify or have identified as Jebobah’s Witlesses can still
do so with A Common Bond lgbt support group as long as they don’t
attend services at a JW church and it’s important lgbt people and same-sex
couples have this suppport group. Lgbt individuals and same-sex couples
from the JW church need to support each other.
I am a Jehova Witness. Have been for…over 20 years I forget exactly. I am what many people consider a very liberal witness. In matters of conscience, I usually disagree with the GB.
Our official position regarding LGBT rights is. It is none of our business. The right to legally marry is a government given right. It is not a scriptural thing. We cannot confuse, the LEGAL right to marry, vs a religious marriage. The reason there are different terminologies, is because they are different things.
We do not hate any member of the LGBT community. I have several work friends who are members of the LGBT community. I even go to socials and marketing events with them. Yes, I would not endorse their lifestyle and clearly it does not fit with the Bible’s standards of behavior. However, we have free will and people will do what people will do.
We certainly are not homophobes. Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.[Wikipedia] We, Jehova’s Witnesses, do not express any of the attitudes above. See the definition has several qualifiers. 1 Negative feelings or attitudes. We have a neutral attitude. That is it is none of our business what you do. The second and very important qualifier, irrational fear. We do not fear the LGBT community. We do not advocate their practices. We do not choose to socialize with them. We treat them just as we would, any other person.
Finally, this is not our choice. Everybody dances around this subject. I will address it head on, and maybe cause some controversy in the process. God does not like homosexual activity. We are bound by what the bible says. Yes I know some doofus called it a “booble.” Yes God loves everybody, but just as you love your child, you will apply discipline, physical or otherwise when he does something wrong. And when he does something really wrong you might be pissed for days, but you still love them. Likewise, God loves the members of the LGBT community, but it would be disingenuous for them to think that God would approve of what they do, from a simple reading of the Bible. However, our position, is not one to judge. One alone shall judge, the Christ.
What we at the congregations do, is try to keep the congregation – on the macro level – as a whole, as close as possible to the bible’s standards. Individuals will have to face the music on an individual basis. You cannot be a cop if you are convicted felon, you cannot be an employee who is disloyal to his employer. Likewise you cannot be a JW, if your actions do not fit with the bible’s standards. That is not irrational fear. That is obedience. so if God decided that he doesn’t like homosexuality, for whatever reason he may have, then I guess you think God is a homophobe?
Have no I sympathy with the kingdumb hall. It is a cult and the most spiritually corrupt organization. The door to door people are just deceived sheeps. Be aware of the governing body and their evil form.